Jump to content



Photo

Void Travel


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 signoftheserpent

signoftheserpent

    Member

  • Members
  • 871 posts

Posted 27 April 2013 - 06:17 AM

Given that the Vortex is essentially the warp intruding on reality, I have two questions:

1. How do ships travel the void? It's said that Navigators are sent screaming (hence the Screaming Vortex) once they open their third eye. Does all void travel within rely on Daemons or Sorcerers? What is the nature of these sorcerers? Are there no chaos navigators, like Octavia in Soul Hunter who has to take the Night Lords back to the Eye of Terror.

2. Do ships have geller fields? I doubt the forces of the warp care if the local traffic is heretics: a meal is a meal! So how can anyone actually travel through the void - particularly as the warp openly intrudes on reality within the Vortex - safely? In fact how come the worlds of the Vortex, even the Gloaming Worlds, aren't all a mass of daemons and slaughter?



#2 Keffisch

Keffisch

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,121 posts

Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:25 AM

signoftheserpent said:

Given that the Vortex is essentially the warp intruding on reality, I have two questions:

1. How do ships travel the void? It's said that Navigators are sent screaming (hence the Screaming Vortex) once they open their third eye. Does all void travel within rely on Daemons or Sorcerers? What is the nature of these sorcerers? Are there no chaos navigators, like Octavia in Soul Hunter who has to take the Night Lords back to the Eye of Terror.

2. Do ships have geller fields? I doubt the forces of the warp care if the local traffic is heretics: a meal is a meal! So how can anyone actually travel through the void - particularly as the warp openly intrudes on reality within the Vortex - safely? In fact how come the worlds of the Vortex, even the Gloaming Worlds, aren't all a mass of daemons and slaughter?

 

1. I cannot remember the sources but I seem to recall Sorcerors plying the currents of the Warp in some of the novels.

That aside I personally find it likely that the Chaos gods will provide if their servants provide them with an adequate sacrifice.

Then there's the Dark Mechanicus, maybe they've invented a man-machine-daemon hybrid that can act as a navigator?

Go nuts, it is The Warp, anything goes (and then some) !



#3 Brother Orpheo

Brother Orpheo

    Member

  • Members
  • 539 posts

Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:40 AM

signoftheserpent said:

 

Given that the Vortex is essentially the warp intruding on reality, I have two questions:

1. How do ships travel the void? It's said that Navigators are sent screaming (hence the Screaming Vortex) once they open their third eye. Does all void travel within rely on Daemons or Sorcerers? What is the nature of these sorcerers? Are there no chaos navigators, like Octavia in Soul Hunter who has to take the Night Lords back to the Eye of Terror.

2. Do ships have geller fields? I doubt the forces of the warp care if the local traffic is heretics: a meal is a meal! So how can anyone actually travel through the void - particularly as the warp openly intrudes on reality within the Vortex - safely? In fact how come the worlds of the Vortex, even the Gloaming Worlds, aren't all a mass of daemons and slaughter?

 

 

1-

From the description of the Warp Guide, Rogue Psykers, page 118 and 119 of The Navis Primer:

"A Warp Guide unlocks the ability to traverse the Warp through Human sacrifice, attracting Daemons to lead the vessel through the Warp."

"By treating with Daemons and paying a tribute in blood and souls…"

"Often, ships led by Daemons find themselves lost within the twisted depths [of the Warp] with no means of escape and no sign of their [Daemonic] guides but a faint cackling."

Warp Guides possess a special ability, known as Blood Sacrifice: "While they are not Navigators in the traditional sense…Warp Guides  can navigate great voidships through the Warp using guile, their few innate psychic abilities, and the unpredictable aid of the denizens of the Warp."

The Navis Primer also sheds (some) light on the "shrouded", Renegade, or cursed Houses of the Navigators. House Nostromo, the fate of which is tied (perhaps forever) with that of the Rogue Trader Dynasty of Haarlock. The Renegade House of Typhon, known to have associations with a variety of undesirable factions within the Imperium's vast institutions, notably Inquisitors of a decidedly Radical mindset (some of whom were excommunicated). House Malaspina, whose shrouded past traces its tenebrous origins to the time of the Horus Heresy and whose Navigators are not accepted on the vessels of First and Second Founding Astartes Chapters. It is entirely possible that certain ancient Renegade Houses have continued in their service to those who followed the Ruinous Powers into damnation along with the Traitor Legions. It is also likely those same Renegade Houses are a most precious resource to the Chaos-tainted warlords who ply void and aethyr.

The (excommunicate) Phaenonites could indeed possess some malefic techno-sorcerous device that makes the use of Navigators redundant. The mini-adventure concluding the Dark Heresy publication The Lathe Worlds touches upon this very subject.

I read (most of) Soul Hunter, and while I found it to be lackluster and cliche, I believe the Navigator you reference, Octavia, is a prisoner of the Night Lords, captured from another vessel for the very purpose for which she was born. Thus it might be assumed that Navigators may in fact guide voidships against their will.

2-

I would postulate that, where possible and affordable, all vessels traversing the Vortex, whether in the Warp or otherwise, do in fact possess Gellar Fields. As you say, the denizens of the Warp make no distinctions between the faithful and the heretic. Again, The Navis Primer suggests that mass recitation of baleful dirges and the copious offerings of blood sacrifices may very well replace the Gellar Field.

Rarely do I ascribe literal meaning to "flavor" text within 40K RPG publications. If in fact it is stated somewhere that Navigators "are sent screaming" I would take that merely as an indication of the dread nature of the Vortex and its environs. Likewise, though the Warp intrudes upon worlds of the Vortex, I believe we are meant to suspend the notion that these incursions are "all or nothing" occurrences. Hence the "flavor" text given for each individual world within the Vortex; some are spared its worst, others are absolutely steeped in its blasphemy.

 


=][=


#4 signoftheserpent

signoftheserpent

    Member

  • Members
  • 871 posts

Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:34 PM

There are surely corrupt Navigators. Surely as there are rogue psykers and indeed heretics of all stripe lured by the warp there must be Navigators who learn the dark arts of navigating the warp. Black Crusades wouldn't get very far without some means to traverse the warp! Unfortunately none of this is discussed in BC.

In fact one of the thigns I wish they had done is integrate the games more: Rogue Trader's supplements have a lot of stuff that could be very useful for BC: some of the character classes like Arch Heretek have useful abilities that don't translate easily (one of the Arch Heretek's abilities requires 'Electrograft Use' which is a talent that doesn't exist in Black Crusade - or Only War).

There are obviously plenty of ships that travel around and in and out of the Vortex so there must be some common technologies and methods. They can't all rely on unique elements like forbidden tech or daemon sailors.

What about the worlds themselves? While many of them are inhospitable (ironically making the Vortex less fun to play in), there are settlements throughout: so how come they aren't routinely invaded by screaming bloodthirsty daemon hordes?



#5 Brother Orpheo

Brother Orpheo

    Member

  • Members
  • 539 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:46 AM

signoftheserpent said:

 

There are surely corrupt Navigators. Surely as there are rogue psykers and indeed heretics of all stripe lured by the warp there must be Navigators who learn the dark arts of navigating the warp. Black Crusades wouldn't get very far without some means to traverse the warp! Unfortunately none of this is discussed in BC.

In fact one of the thigns I wish they had done is integrate the games more: Rogue Trader's supplements have a lot of stuff that could be very useful for BC: some of the character classes like Arch Heretek have useful abilities that don't translate easily (one of the Arch Heretek's abilities requires 'Electrograft Use' which is a talent that doesn't exist in Black Crusade - or Only War).

There are obviously plenty of ships that travel around and in and out of the Vortex so there must be some common technologies and methods. They can't all rely on unique elements like forbidden tech or daemon sailors.

What about the worlds themselves? While many of them are inhospitable (ironically making the Vortex less fun to play in), there are settlements throughout: so how come they aren't routinely invaded by screaming bloodthirsty daemon hordes?

 

 

Black Crusade is no different than Dark Heresy in terms of interstellar travel. The Callixis Sector map presented over a hundred different worlds, many with their own descriptions, yet nowhere in the Dark Heresy Core Rules or its supplements did it detail the means used to travel from one world to another, other than "the Imperium utilizes great voidships to travel the vast distances of void from one world to another". Black Crusade is no different in that respect. Ergo, the GM has two options: either he must exercise a measure of "handwavium" to get the PCs from point A to point B, using role play and narrative interaction, or he must fob for the rules he wishes to incorporate into this game. The first option is free, requiring GM and Player interaction and imagination, the second option requires a financial investment. These choices are yours to make.

The games may be as integrated as you make them, but FFG likely will not put forth the effort you desire.

With a dash of common sense, one might assume that many vessels traversing the Vortex share common technologies for Warp travel and protection versus the denizens of the Warp, as well as incorporating those affectations the Imperium looks upon with scorn. Again, regarding the setting, there are worlds within the Vortex (in my opinion) that are not 100% exposed to the Warp 100% of the time. There are two things that prevent worlds within the Vortex from being "routinely invaded" by denizens of the Warp: individual descriptions of the worlds themselves, many of which that simply do not indicate such things "routinely" occurring, and the wishes of the GM. If the GM wants it to happen, it happens. If the GM wants to know why is doesn't happen, he need simply read the individual world descriptions, or alter said decriptions to his/her own liking and for his/her own game. I'm confident there is no other explanation.

If you find the setting of the Vortex to be "less fun to play in", might I ask: what prevents you from choosing a different setting, or using one of your own creation? Do you prefer the Black Crusade Rules over others, but find the setting undesireable? Or are you simply unhappy with Black Crusade altogether?

In any case, Black Crusade presents a collection of rules, not mandates set in stone that carry the consequence of a death sentence if they are not adhered to letter by letter. Alter what you do not like. Alter "flavor" text that you do not care for. The book is yours, now and always. It has no tenebrous ties to FFG that allow them to attend your game and tell you how to play the game.


=][=


#6 signoftheserpent

signoftheserpent

    Member

  • Members
  • 871 posts

Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:50 AM

I'm not too much a fan of handwavium. I like to be inspired by the parameters of the setting, or indeed the rulebook. Vehicles, particularly, spacecraft are something that FFG has failed to deal with effectively at all (Only War has some, but no ships). The players aren't in a position to acquire such things yet anyway; that would require a pretty considerable Infamy roll, but i digress.

I'm not sure it's no different: there is a fundamental difference in that flying through the Calixis Sector isn't flying through a warp storm. The Vortex is a an escalating collision of warp and realspace with commensurate hazards. As such imperial resources - ie navigators and fleets - won't and wouldn't be allowed to travel there. As far as I know there are no imperial assets within even the edges of the Vortex. Port Wander is the nearest and that's only in relative terms.

Obvously FFG aren't going to integrate them. It's a shame though because the later RT books have lots of interesting character types that could easily be used for a heretic game, some of which are outright heretical themselves (Reavers, Acolytes of Abraxas, Seccessionists). How awesome would it be to use their assets?

I don't think I said that I find the VOrtex a poor setting to use, though the two books thus far (not a lot for a game that's been out this long) feature many worlds that, reasonably in terms of the setting, aren't going to be much fun to play on. There ain't much to do on the Flaming Tomb, other than be killed and eaten by daemons! I suppose that's the risk you take basing a game in such a place. Ironically there are lots of worlds on the map (the one in the book not the inside cover) that sound interesting we have yet to hear about, which is why I had hoped they'd covered all 4 Tomes by now.

 



#7 Arkangilos

Arkangilos

    Member

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 30 April 2013 - 07:08 AM

signoftheserpent said:

I'm not too much a fan of handwavium. I like to be inspired by the parameters of the setting, or indeed the rulebook. Vehicles, particularly, spacecraft are something that FFG has failed to deal with effectively at all (Only War has some, but no ships). The players aren't in a position to acquire such things yet anyway; that would require a pretty considerable Infamy roll, but i digress.

Not necessarily true for the acquiring a ship. 

Adventure spoilers to explain:

 

 

 

In my campaign that I had planned with some of my buddies, I started off using the Broken Chains adventure (or whichever was the one that involved being prisoner on the Inquisitors ship), and my plan was to have them keep their newly acquired ship (now falling apart, with system failure), and eventually use it as their first vessel. It would have stats made using RT rules, but would be unusable until they recrewed it and restored its system. That would lead into adventures like Hand of Corruption where they would use the world to crew their ship, and stuff like that. 

From there they would use the ship to do whatever they needed to do.

Also, in Broken Chains, I think a regular Sorcerer can navigate the warp so long as they have that ability. 






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS