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Hot Dog's "Forced to Eject"


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#1 ActionHero2Go

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 04:57 PM

I'm not sure how Hot Dog's "Forced to Eject" can be a flaw to an unrevealed cylon player. Of course, it works as a flaw for a human player, but a cylon player would probably love to destroy the vipers they were piloting!

Maybe it could read like this?

 

Forced to Eject - Any time a viper you are piloting is damaged, destroy it instead, and do not contribute any Skill Cards if there is a Skill Check on the next Crisis Card.



#2 Anacreon

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:26 AM

Interesting, and good catch.  Are there any other characters whose "bad stuff" hurts a team rather than the character?  (Hot dog's weakness hurts him personally no more than any other character is hurt - going to sickbay).  



#3 ActionHero2Go

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:42 AM

Ellen Tigh is maybe the closest to having a weakness that hurts a team because she draws treachery, which is always beneficial to the cylon team and not the human team. However, this is still a drawback for the player of Ellen Tigh, even if it is an unrevealed cylon, because all the human players know to be looking at her whenever treachery comes up.

I’d hate to post a complaint though without offering a solution. I realized my suggestion for Forced to Eject probably has many flaws because players could turn the flaw into a reward by passing around needed cards to each other. Here is a better solution. This idea reflects that Hot Dog may need some recovery time after ejecting.


Forced to Eject - Any time a viper you are piloting is damaged, destroy it instead, and do not contribute any Skill Cards to any Crisis Cards on this turn.



#4 Anacreon

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:48 AM

Or maybe just the not able to contribute, period; drop the destruction of the viper.



#5 Vonpenguin

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:52 PM

Good catch though I can see this hurting Hot Dog in the social aspect if not mechanically. "Don't take a mkVII if you get hit we lose it!" or "Why did you get into that fight without enough evasive manuvers? You must have meant to lose our viper you toaster!"

 

I see many briggings in the careless hot dog's future.



#6 ActionHero2Go

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:31 PM

Even though it will make human players frustrated, I don't think it's enough to cause any trouble for Hot Dog.

No one will be able to stop Hot Dog from taking any viper he wants, no matter how much it frustrates the other players. If there is actually cylons attacking the fleet, no one is going to bother throwing their pilot in the brig just because he keeps jumping out in a viper without ever seeming to have any cards to protect himself. Everyone will be too busy fighting to worry about him taking the viper.

Perhaps afterwards they might throw him in the brig, especially if they found he had a card like Evasive Maneuvers and didn't use it. But all this is the result of a flaw that helps an unrevealed cylon sabotage the humans, rather than hinder the unrevealed cylon.



#7 Vonpenguin

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:40 PM

True but as soft reveals go destroying a viper, even a MK VII is pretty weak unless humans are running low on them anyway. A cylon Hot Dog might be able to get away with it once, maybe twice in a game but with, what, eight vipers in the mix, plus whatever assult raptors do is it going to matter in the long run? My gut tells me that the answer will be no more often then it will be yes.

 

As far as people being too busy to brig him, if that's the case then they'd be too busy to repair vipers and any pilot could do almost the same thing in the short term. And if I saw that he was intentionally flying ships out to get them killed I'd make time.



#8 ActionHero2Go

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:36 AM

Why did editing my original post remove part of the title? Apparently I can only edit it after I recently made a new post. Looks like it's fixed now.



#9 ActionHero2Go

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 12:18 PM

I noticed in Ionia Nebula they went with a completely different theme for the Hot Dog NPC. It was called "Troublemaker". I think I like that as a theme for the TV show's character more than "Forced to Eject" flaw. Of course the rules would have to change. An idea for Troublemaker might be this.

Troublemaker - If no one else in addition to you contributes Skill Cards to a Skill Check, remove all Skill Cards that you used for this Skill Check.



#10 Skowza

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:31 PM

They paired it with a OPG that doesn't really benefit a Cylon; actually its a pretty crappy OPG in general.  Other than his skill set I don't think much of him and would take any other pilot every time, except for Anders of course.

ActionHero2Go said:

Troublemaker - If no one else in addition to you contributes Skill Cards to a Skill Check, remove all Skill Cards that you used for this Skill Check.

This doesnt really seem useful; on his turn it does nothing and the group will be deciding whether to pass or auto-fail most Skill Checks anyway, so I don't see what you had in mind with this idea…?

ActionHero2Go said:

Ellen Tigh is maybe the closest to having a weakness that hurts a team because she draws treachery, which is always beneficial to the cylon team and not the human team. However, this is still a drawback for the player of Ellen Tigh, even if it is an unrevealed cylon, because all the human players know to be looking at her whenever treachery comes up.

I gotta disagree here too, she should be discarding the Treachery to move around or throwing them away on Skill Checks you plan to fail; her ability to pass out XOs is so solid that the possibility of her spiking a Skill Check doesn't matter.  Most Treachery have low SC value so she can't do a whole lot of damage as a Cylon, and its pretty obvious to the rest of the players when shes up to no good.
Boomer's "bad stuff" hurts a team a lot more; if shes Human after Sleeper then they have to waste cards and actions to get her out of the brig, and if shes Cylon then her reveal power gets shut down.



#11 ActionHero2Go

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:43 AM

My Troublemaker idea was meant to be a flaw to replace Forced to Eject, so it’s not meant to be useful. It was supposed to be annoying to the player, whether they are human or an unrevealed cylon, who can no longer be the sole contributor to a skill check. Hot Dog would always have to have someone else contribute to skill checks with him, whether it’s his turn or not. Obviously this would make a difference to a human player, and to a cylon player it makes a difference when trying to pass a Skill Check on Administration, Admiral Quarters, Brig, or the Airlock. Although, come to think of it, it hardly ever happens that one of those locations is activated and an unrevealed cylon is the sole contributor, so maybe it’s not that good of a flaw as designed…

I’m not sure I understand what you are disagreeing with regarding Ellen Tigh. Are you saying Ellen Tigh’s flaw will only help a human player, but never help a cylon player because treachery cards must always be discarded? To me, it seems like an unrevealed cylon player could still use Ellen Tigh’s treachery cards if they wanted to, especially if a Reckless card was played. It’s not an easy task either for players to keep track of all the cards a player has or has not discarded. Especially for Ellen Tigh since she can be giving her treachery cards to other players and the player who is given the treachery card is not allowed to say what Ellen Tigh gave them.

As for Boomer’s flaw, regardless of whether you feel an unrevealed cylon player or a human player is hurt more by it, it still affects the player whether they are a human or cylon as you pointed out.

So to me, it still seems like there are no other characters that have flaws which help one side but hurt the other.
 






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