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More female heroes ever?


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#1 brilk

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:06 AM

I just picked up the game and have really enjoyed it so far. The first thing I did when I opened the box was throw together a deck using the three female heroes. After winning my first game, I went online to find which expansions to buy to get more female heroes. I was incredibly surprised and disappointed to find out that out of the 31 heroes printed so far, the three females in the base set were it. The site was dead, so hopefully there's been at least one more female hero printed since then. I can't find set lists anywhere, though.

Has there been any talk of adding additional female heroes? I get that the LOTR books were a huge sausage-fest, but I'd be really happy if the ratio improved at least a bit. I'm sure there's something to work with in the source material.



#2 richsabre

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:17 AM

hello,

you are certainly not the first to ask this, and i shall give the answer i gave the last couple of times in the least sexist way i can, so i dont end up insulting people :)

the reason there is little female heros is as you say, there are few major female character in the books. now whether this was the era it was written in, personal choice ,chance etc….i dont think it matters….the point is though, ffg are purposely working with the book's characters which, i think everyone can agree, is a good thing….we are here afterall because of tolkien's creation

now someone could say 'just make some up' or make the lesser known female characters heros…and that is perfectly fine, but i think it just comes down to the designers concentrating on the core characters

 you would probably think that there would be a good few females to make heros…but i have read the trilogy more times than i can remember, and there really isnt that many.

i really have no problem if ffg decide to create some female heros such as beravor, i mean she is a great creation, and is in line with tokien lore, but i dont see them doing it just for that reason…which brings me onto your question of plans for others….the answer is no, but there seems to be at least a couple of women spoiled in the upcoming gondor packs.

i wouldnt fear though…we still have a lobelia sackville baggins to come..and she is worth at least 3 characters :)

rich

PS. i'd just like to point out i dont speak for the design team, they may or may not have the same ideas as i posted here (just thought id post that as its a sesitive subject and i like being respected on this forum ;) )


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#3 Raven1015

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:40 PM

The picture is even worse if you consider that 2 out of the 3 female heroes were created by FFG (Beravor and Eleanor) and only 1 was actually in the source material (Eowyn). It seems that FFG struggled to find female heroes from the very beginning, and this remains true today. To directly answer your question, there have been no news or spoilers related to future female heroes. Arwen has showed up as an ally card, but that doesn't mean she might not be a hero later (in fact, this wouldn't surprise me). We are certain to see Galadriel at some point as a hero, and she should be one of the most powerful heroes in the game, if they are staying true to the source material (which they have so far). Beyond Arwen, a new version of Eowyn, and Galadriel, FFG is going to have to create more characters from scratch if they want to increase the female representation. 


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#4 richsabre

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:16 PM

yeah i cant wait for galadriel. she will be crazy powerful….certainly she will make up for the lack of female heros. and im sure her coming will bring about a few more female elves (im thinking like the minstrel)

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#5 Colino

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:39 PM

No doubt Galadriel will be fantastic, it would be fitting if she were as powerful as Elrond is, who in my opinion is one of the best heroes in the game and also very well designed thematically.

I'd also like to see a tactics Eowyn whenever the Rohan cycle comes around.



#6 richsabre

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:47 PM

Colino said:

No doubt Galadriel will be fantastic, it would be fitting if she were as powerful as Elrond is, who in my opinion is one of the best heroes in the game and also very well designed thematically.

I'd also like to see a tactics Eowyn whenever the Rohan cycle comes around.

both very valid points…..certainly in the books she was more powerful and older than elrond (im sure i remember that he was her minstrel for a while….if my memory serves me well)

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#7 Thanatopsis

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:26 PM

You should try a "Ladies of Middle Earth" deck.

The three female heroes, plus

All the lore and spirit female allies:
- Lorien Guide
- Daughter of the Nimrodel
- West Road Traveller
- Rivendell Minstrel
- Imladris Stargazer
- Arwen Undomiel
- Envoy of Pelargir
- Silvian Tracker

and all cards with female characters on them:
- Galadrhim's Greeting
- Protector of Lorien
- Favor of the Lady

You have to round it out with a few staples: burning brand, test of will, unexpected courage, hasty stroke, etc. but it's not that bad of a deck. You have card draw, healing, cancellations, and high willpower. Unfortunately, you need a bunch of men to bail you out on the attack and defense side



#8 lleimmoen

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:51 AM

I like the female deck, good pics, though I don't think Lórien Guide is female.

Yes, Galadriel is probably a character most readers are very much looking forward to. I certainly am, probably most beside Tom Bombadil (whom I hope to see as an ally one day). I hope Galadriel has some very extreme ability (for a cost, of course). I think she might be threat cost 14, that would suit her well being one over Elrond even; 4 will, 1 attack, 3 defence, 4 hp, two extra cost for the ability sounds good to me. And Spirit, of course, not that that sphere has got less than others but if it is actually lacking something, it is the heroes…

Publish


#9 richsabre

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:45 AM

lleimmoen said:

 

I like the female deck, good pics, though I don't think Lórien Guide is female.

Yes, Galadriel is probably a character most readers are very much looking forward to. I certainly am, probably most beside Tom Bombadil (whom I hope to see as an ally one day). I hope Galadriel has some very extreme ability (for a cost, of course). I think she might be threat cost 14, that would suit her well being one over Elrond even; 4 will, 1 attack, 3 defence, 4 hp, two extra cost for the ability sounds good to me. And Spirit, of course, not that that sphere has got less than others but if it is actually lacking something, it is the heroes…

Publish

 

 

we would also get her mirror, which would offer some deck peeking abilities. and nenya of course. i think she would give some sort of major defense stat buff to every character in play.

rich

ps. what s with that publish button?


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#10 Style75

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:38 AM

There was also Tom Bombadil's wife, Goldberry. While she's more nature spirit than mortal, she would make a very intriguing female character for the game and hopefully would have some fun abilities.

Also, Galadriel should be a LOT more powerful than Elrond. Tolkien said she was the "mightiest and fairest of all elves that remained in middle earth". So if Elrond has starting threat 13, I would expect Galadriel to be a 14 or 15. She should also come with some crazy powerful abilities.

On the issue of gender, I've always found it interesting that Tolkien included so few female characters, but the most powerful character in the books is female. I'm sure there's been some kind of psychoanalysis written about that :)



#11 lleimmoen

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:00 AM

Haha, I don't know what the button is, I actually responded right after that but that didn't get through at all.

I also find Tolkien's approach to female characters interesting. They are rare in both quantity and quality. Goldberry is another good call. I am really looking forward to that Old Forest couple. I know some people think these characters should not come as player cards, and I understand their point; but my desire to play with these iconic characters is just too great to wish otherwise. There could be an interesting consdition when these allies (as I see them) could be played.

Galadriel, on the other hand, must be a hero, now that Elrond is. But I do not think we see her in this cycle.



#12 Captain Poe

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:22 AM

FFG has not made an additional made up characters since the core set. Since Tolkiens writings lack female characters, there is some what limited options. You have Arwin and Gladriel, but outside of that, the arent really any realy qualifying characters. I guess they could make a tactics eowyn or something, but that doesnt really help get more options for characters.

 

 



#13 richsabre

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:43 AM

lleimmoen said:

 

Goldberry is another good call. I am really looking forward to that Old Forest couple. I know some people think these characters should not come as player cards, and I understand their point; but my desire to play with these iconic characters is just too great to wish otherwise. There could be an interesting consdition when these allies (as I see them) could be played.

 

 

this exactly……no matter how sacred they are, this game just cant end (whenever that will be….may our beards grow long before it happens) without having seen those two…i think that goes without saying :)

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#14 gatharion

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:32 AM

I'd very much like to see Tom Bombadil and Goldberry in the game, but I suspect it will be in the form of allies for a particular quest.

 

Galadrial and a more martial Eowyn are certainly needed. Aside from that, I just don't know. I wouldn't mind a few more FFG made up ladies (there will be an invented female elf in the next Hobbit movie, because Jackson was having the same problem), but I'd be lying if I said that I'd be especially excited about more invented female characters. Much, if not most, of the time my decks are constructed around characters I want to play, rather than abilities I want to have.



#15 Raven1015

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:21 PM

I suppose they could always throw in Rosie Cotton at some point ;-)

It's too bad that FFG likely won't be able to ever get rights to the Silmarillion, as that work has a lot of very interesting and powerful female characters in it that would make great hero cards


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#16 richsabre

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:50 PM

tolkien gets alot of bad comments about the women thing, but i think we have to remember that tolkien based middle earth on various medieval and post medieval cultures…all of whom would not have had place for women in fighting and so on, and given that war and danger is the basis for the novels, its hardly surprsing that women dont feature

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#17 Pharmboys2013

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:22 PM

it was mentioned briefly before, but if FFG goes the route of making non-canon female heroes i think it would be a brilliant idea to make Tauriel whom nearly all tolkien fans will be familiar with after the next hobbit movie.  I can see licensing issues mucking up those proceedings although so it may be more likely we will only see new versions of eowyn and arwen along with the long awaited galadriel


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#18 richsabre

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:57 PM

Pharmboys2013 said:

 

it was mentioned briefly before, but if FFG goes the route of making non-canon female heroes i think it would be a brilliant idea to make Tauriel whom nearly all tolkien fans will be familiar with after the next hobbit movie.  I can see licensing issues mucking up those proceedings although so it may be more likely we will only see new versions of eowyn and arwen along with the long awaited galadriel

 

 

surprise surprise i would absolutely hate that…(not that im picking at your idea….just the thought in general :) )..grrr…..it makes my beard wither to think of a game focused on the books take a PJ invention (she is right? ..im avoiding the hobbit films on principle). but as you say, it would never be allowed to happen anyways

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#19 John85

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:14 AM

Style75 said:

There was also Tom Bombadil's wife, Goldberry. While she's more nature spirit than mortal, she would make a very intriguing female character for the game and hopefully would have some fun abilities.

Also, Galadriel should be a LOT more powerful than Elrond. Tolkien said she was the "mightiest and fairest of all elves that remained in middle earth". So if Elrond has starting threat 13, I would expect Galadriel to be a 14 or 15. She should also come with some crazy powerful abilities.

On the issue of gender, I've always found it interesting that Tolkien included so few female characters, but the most powerful character in the books is female. I'm sure there's been some kind of psychoanalysis written about that :)

There is a short article in Vol.7 of Tolkien Studies that deals with some issues of gender (in the sense of nouns having gender) entitled " 'Elves (and Hobbits) always refer to the Sun as She': Some Notes on a Note in Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings" by Yvette L. Kisor (2007). She indicates that Tolkien has followed the use of Germanic languages in making the (more powerful) Sun "She" and the Moon "He". This is consistent use by Elves, Hobbits, Dwarves, and Men. Gollum however refers to all beings external to himself as "it", with the exception of Sauron ("He") and Shelob ("She"). The author further points to the fact that although "named" women are few in number, if not downright absent from the two primary works (tH and tLotR). They do have wonderful power (e.g. Galadriel, as already mentioned, Eowyn, even Gilraen to an extent, and Arwen, if you look at Jackson's take). I believe this has to do with Tolkien's religious belief (Catholicism) which is woven into Middle Earth (I don't think I need to explain that he is not an allegorist to this crowd). In any case the intercession of Galadriel on behalf of the Fellowship (giving sanctuary in Lorien and gifts on their departure), and Eowyn on behalf of her father to my mind shows two images of the Blessed Virgin Mary: Galadriel resisting temptation, being so powerful, protecting the fellowship, etc. and Eowyn "crushing the head of the serpent" (or in this case the serpent's servant), cf. Gen 3:15, in slaying the witch-king and his fell-beast. Tolkien's women are few in number, but they are among the most powerful, brave, and virtuous (interesting word there) in Middle-Earth. It certainly shows he was no sexist.

Just a couple of thoughts.

edit: Rich, I think that bit about "women not featuring" is unfair when one sees the ways they do feature in the novels. I, too, would be angry if Tauriel had a role in the game (unlikely, I think).



#20 Pharmboys2013

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:26 AM

richsabre said:

Pharmboys2013 said:

 

it was mentioned briefly before, but if FFG goes the route of making non-canon female heroes i think it would be a brilliant idea to make Tauriel whom nearly all tolkien fans will be familiar with after the next hobbit movie.  I can see licensing issues mucking up those proceedings although so it may be more likely we will only see new versions of eowyn and arwen along with the long awaited galadriel

 

 

surprise surprise i would absolutely hate that…(not that im picking at your idea….just the thought in general :) )..grrr…..it makes my beard wither to think of a game focused on the books take a PJ invention (she is right? ..im avoiding the hobbit films on principle). but as you say, it would never be allowed to happen anyways

rich

haha I put the word "nearly" in that post just for you rich


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