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I Don't Get the Point of Blasphemous Incantation


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#1 bloody malth

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:13 PM

Blasphemous Incantation is a tier 3 talent, so is Psy Rating. The two talents cost the same and they both up the character's psy rating by one, but here are the differences:

  • Blasphemous Incantation takes an extra half action to use and powers that are activated with a reaction cannot benefit from it.
  • The character using Blasphemous Incantation suffers a +20 to any Psychic Phenomena rolls made as a result of the power used with it.
  • A roll of 91-00 when using Blasphemous Incantation automatically means the character must roll on Perils of the Warp.

By contrast, upping your Psy Rating doesn't come with any baggage. If your character is dedicated to Tzeentch, Blasphemous Incantation becomes a little cheaper than upping Psy Rating and that is the only reason I could see anyone considering picking up this power. Or maybe role-playing reasons.

There are some very astute people on these boards, so can anyone see something I am missing? Blasphemous Incantation doesn't seem like a very useful talent, especially one of Tier 3 rank.



#2 Routa-maa

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:03 PM

bloody malth said:

Blasphemous Incantation is a tier 3 talent, so is Psy Rating. The two talents cost the same and they both up the character's psy rating by one, but here are the differences:

  • Blasphemous Incantation takes an extra half action to use and powers that are activated with a reaction cannot benefit from it.
  • The character using Blasphemous Incantation suffers a +20 to any Psychic Phenomena rolls made as a result of the power used with it.
  • A roll of 91-00 when using Blasphemous Incantation automatically means the character must roll on Perils of the Warp.

By contrast, upping your Psy Rating doesn't come with any baggage. If your character is dedicated to Tzeentch, Blasphemous Incantation becomes a little cheaper than upping Psy Rating and that is the only reason I could see anyone considering picking up this power. Or maybe role-playing reasons.

There are some very astute people on these boards, so can anyone see something I am missing? Blasphemous Incantation doesn't seem like a very useful talent, especially one of Tier 3 rank.

Blasphemous Incantation is one of the Paths to Power as explained on BC corerules p.207. It can be taken just once unlike Psy Rating talent that can be taken multiple times.

It's morning here where I live under the rock, and I haven't yet got decent cup of coffee. So my brains are little bit frozen and can't make much more coherent text as must first translate the rule into finnish and then back into english.


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#3 bloody malth

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 10:17 PM

Routa-maa said:

Blasphemous Incantation is one of the Paths to Power as explained on BC corerules p.207. It can be taken just once unlike Psy Rating talent that can be taken multiple times.

 

This just looks like another way in which Blasphemous Incantation is limited in scope. That isn't a very convincing reason to reconsider the talent.


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#4 Alekzanter

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:55 AM

Not every player will min/max their character. Some will roleplay, using Blasphemous Incantation and Child of the Warp to be a petty Psyker, perhaps never further increasing their Psy Rating, concentrating on other Skills and Talents as befitting the role play concept of their Character..

 



#5 Kiton

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:00 AM

Just because you're shooting yourself in the foot does not necessarily mean that you are roleplaying better though. In both cases you looked at and considered the mechanics, not just the fluff, before then  expending enough XP for a tier 3 talent. Choosing Blasphemous Incantation is just Psy Rating+1 with a long and vicious list of drawbacks. That petty psyker just boosted their psy rating. They just chose to do it in a way that's more dangerous to themselves and the party, with no real reason to do so.

Is it really "better roleplaying" if you made your selection based on which has the inferior mechanics? It's not as though you couldn't just, ya know, roleplay or use 'carouse' or something to portray your screaming and begging the dark gods, while using your higher psy rating. If that's what it was about, there's plenty of options out there. Deliberately selecting mechanical flaws doesn't feel like it has much to do with the actual roleplaying at all, and more about hoping for a critical existence failure because the resulting daemon could handle the party well enough…

While some will occasionally argue that going to the GM and demanding the Plasma-Gun you're obtaining be rolled as Extremely Rare, have the damage and range of the pistol, and overheat on 81+ instead of 91+ is "roleplaying", the only thing they're playing as is a hinderance to the party.



#6 Luther Engelsnot

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:34 AM

The only benefit that this talent has is the fact, that you psy rating is increased after you determine if you use the power fettered, unfettered or pushed. So it is basically only better when using fettered as you will gain +1 psi rating every time and it will not be halved like a normal increase of you psi rating. At least as far as I can see a benefit.



#7 Alekzanter

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:02 PM

To each their own.

I don't think I should have to explain in finite detail every nuance of a character concept. Rather I would think someone, anyone, might look at my previous post and think outside the mechanics of the game. But for those who won't or can't, suffice it to say this game; nay, all five games; are filled with gaffs and inconsistancies, and every single person will play them as they will. It is clear FFG has no intention of bringing all five games into a single clear and comprehensive rules set, and as such we are left with the ocasional Errata or total silence on the things each of us feels "makes no sense". What makes no sense to some, makes sense in a completely different context to others.

I was merely offering a different perspective, one that eschewed approaching game play from the game mechanics in favor of concept and character personality.

 



#8 HappyDaze

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 04:59 AM

Alekzanter said:

I was merely offering a different perspective, one that eschewed approaching game play from the game mechanics in favor of concept and character personality.

His counterpoint was that he could approach the same concept/character personality without taking something that mechanically penalizes him. Just because a character doesn't have Blasphemous Incantation doesn't mean the character can't invoke powers while spouting off arcane gibberish (assuming that's part of the character concept/personality) - and if that character instead spends the xp that would have been spent on BI on another Psy Rating then he'll be more effective within that concept too.

So yeah, I think that Blasphemous Incantaion is overcosted. It would be better as a Tier 2 Talent. Considering it's aligned, it can n thebe taken very cheaply by some psykers - if they want to deal with the baggage it brings when used.


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#9 Bassemandrh

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 07:58 AM

Heres my take on it. As far as i know you can only buy up to your WP + CP bonus Psy rating, also it auto caps at 10. Blasphemous Incantation doesn't count towards this cap as far as i  know, thus when you have capped your Psy rating you can buy BI and get more power for your spells, but at a price.



#10 bloody malth

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 04:07 PM

Bassemandrh said:

Heres my take on it. As far as i know you can only buy up to your WP + CP bonus Psy rating, also it auto caps at 10. Blasphemous Incantation doesn't count towards this cap as far as i  know, thus when you have capped your Psy rating you can buy BI and get more power for your spells, but at a price.

 

The WP+CP limit is something I hadn't considered. Thanks everyone for your input. I still don't think it's a particularly attractive talent from a mechanics standpoint. I don't want to seem combative, but I don't think its useful to consider a talent from a role-playing perspective in a rules discussion. Yes, you could take Blasphemous Incantation because you feel it fits the way you want to role-play your character, but that line of reason fits for any talent or rule. I was possibly unclear, but I started this thread because I wanted to see a discussion of the talent's mechanics. I already understand that role-play is limitless and that you can embrace rules that supposedly "worsen" your character for sake of a better story.



#11 Apache

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 09:41 PM

There is another glaring point that has not been mentioned so far. Blasphemous Incantation is a Tzeentch aligned Talent, whereas Psy Rating is Unaligned; this will be important when working out advances for any Mark. Also, a Tzeentch aligned Psyker will buy Blasphemous Incantion for 400XP instead of 750XP for Psy Rating.

 

Edit: One more thing; another striking thing about it is the following passage:

 

"Using a power with an invocation grants the psyker a +1 bonus to his Psy Rating, after determining Psychic Strength. This bonus to PR does not infl uence the Psychic  Strength in any way; the benefi t is applied after determining whether a power is used at the Unfettered, Fettered or Push level."


Edited by Apache, 12 July 2013 - 09:48 PM.


#12 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 06:32 AM

It is (almost) exactly the same as the Invocation skill in Deathwatch, except that it is more dangerous and can be used at the non-Fettered level, as befits Vile Sorcery. (and without looking at the books, it may take less time)


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 07 August 2013 - 03:12 PM.


#13 BrotharTearer

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 02:56 PM

The Psy Rating limit of WPB + CB is moot, as you'll practically never reach that limit if you're building your psyker somewhat competently. 40+ WP and 20+ Corruption is reached quickly, and that means your limit is PR 6. That's not something you will reach at only 20 Corruption unless you happen to get Warpsmith or something.



#14 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 03:14 PM

I almost bought this talent at character creation just so I could build a master of sorcery rather than a psyker, but it was too expensive -- I couldn't afford the Lore and Linguistics skills that the character concept required.

 

I dislike how that character type seems to be impossible.



#15 Lord Rogal Dorn

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 03:15 PM

Also certain psychic powers get better if you use particular paths to power with them. For example Labyrinthine Conundrum from Tome of Fate deals an extra d10 intel damage per turn when used with Blasphemous Incantation.



#16 BrotharTearer

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 08:22 PM

I almost bought this talent at character creation just so I could build a master of sorcery rather than a psyker, but it was too expensive -- I couldn't afford the Lore and Linguistics skills that the character concept required.

 

I dislike how that character type seems to be impossible.

 

Technically the line between psychic powers and sorcery is rather blurred in BC, so you could really just call it sorcery without the BI talent — that's what I'd do.


Edited by BrotharTearer, 07 August 2013 - 08:22 PM.


#17 ShadowRay

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:46 PM

Also certain psychic powers get better if you use particular paths to power with them. For example Labyrinthine Conundrum from Tome of Fate deals an extra d10 intel damage per turn when used with Blasphemous Incantation.

 

That's about the only sensible usage of this talent I can think of.



#18 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 02:46 AM

I realize this is a necro, but

 

I figured it out, I think.

 

It allows you to use Fettered at +1 a higher level.

 

Fettered is 1/2 Psy Rating, making it cost 1/3 less than increasing Psy Rating (roughly, considering how rounding works)

 

Fettered does not invoke Phenomena, so the +20 does not apply.

 

Because the automatic Perils is part of a failed Test, it can be  rerolled with an Infamy Point.

 

So what it does is make using Fettered powers at a higher level more possible, with a 5% chance of a Peril (if Infamy Points are available) but no chance of psychic phenomena.

 

Or, if you really need an extra push in exchange for risk, you can use it to increase Unfettered or Pushed


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 27 October 2013 - 02:48 AM.


#19 Fgdsfg

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 03:14 AM

I realize this is a necro, but
 
I figured it out, I think.
 
It allows you to use Fettered at +1 a higher level.
 
Fettered is 1/2 Psy Rating, making it cost 1/3 less than increasing Psy Rating (roughly, considering how rounding works)
 
Fettered does not invoke Phenomena, so the +20 does not apply.
 
Because the automatic Perils is part of a failed Test, it can be  rerolled with an Infamy Point.
 
So what it does is make using Fettered powers at a higher level more possible, with a 5% chance of a Peril (if Infamy Points are available) but no chance of psychic phenomena.
 
Or, if you really need an extra push in exchange for risk, you can use it to increase Unfettered or Pushed

I never took the time to read the Talent until I read this, but it is correct. It clearly says, "...grants the psyker a +1 bonus to Psy Rating after determining Psychic Strength". It is then further clarified in the text that this is the correct interpretation.

While I still question the usefulness of this very specific usage, it is nontheless a potentially huge benefit when using certain powers, since even a Psy Rating of a massive 6 gets cut down to 3 when used at a Fettered level; making a +1 (to 4 from 3) a huge boost (potentially).


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#20 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 01:33 PM

It will also let you increase Unfettered by 1 PR (which you would have to Push to do otherwise), without automatic Psychic Phenomena.

 

EDIT: come to think of it, without doing the math, I'm pretty sure if you do this your chance of getting a Peril is about the same. Nope it is MUCH MUCH LOWER.

 

Math math, assuming Bound Psyker with PR5.

 

1) Normal Pushing to PR6. Automatic chance of Psychic Phenomena; due to +10 to roll from being bound, 35% chance of a Peril.

 

2) Using Blasphemous Incantation to increase Unfettered to PR6: Automatic peril on 91-100 = 10%. Psychic phenomena on doubles: 8% chance of PP (since 99 and 00 are taken). Due to +20 for blasphemous incantation, 45% of those will be Perils = about 3.5% (let's round up to 4). 10 + 4 = 14. 14% chance of a Peril.

 

In other words, Blasphemous Incantations reduces your chance of getting a Peril of the Warp by almost two-thirds. Chance of Psychic Phenomena in general drops from 100% to 18%. Much lower if you Infamy Point the 91-100; I think down to about 8% chance of a Peril by eyeball math.

 

This Talent is actually not bad at all.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 27 October 2013 - 02:27 PM.





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