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Unarmed Combat


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#1 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:37 PM

Help! I'm confused!

First, to do Fatigue in armed combat. you have to do Damage equal to or greater than the target's TB.

Is what is meant here Damage before or after reduction for Armour? That is, does the attack have to do at least 1 Wound? (Part of my confusion is FFG's constant equivocation between "Damage" and "Wounds" in the text.) I'm leaning in this direction.

Second, if I gain the Deadly Natural Weapons Trait, does this Fatigue-causing ability somehow disappear, since I no longer count as Unarmed?

And… if I can do this with a fist, why not a club?

 



#2 vikingwookiee

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:43 PM

I would imagine that it’s consistent with most RPG’s you’d apply the DR (Armour and wounds)and whats left is your “dmg” so that would work out at 3 or 4 wounds to equal  someones TB and do the Fatigue damage.

With most systems where you get a trait to do lethal dmg with your fists you can choose what you are going to apply before you attack.  For example a martial artist is perfectly capable of striking with deadly or not deadly force  I’d think the same principle applies here.  



#3 RagingKiwi

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:57 AM

I beleive this system is in place to stop players from killing NPCs (or each other) in a simple fight. I have a few instances where my players wanted to start a drunken brawl, and in these situations I ignore armour if anyone is wearing. It would make sence to me that if you are fighting someone in armour unarmed, you won't be trying to kill him, you'll only be trying to knock him over/out, so grapple, takedown talent and stun are the go to for my players.

However in combat if you find yourself with no weapons and without unarmed warrior/master I would say you have 3 options, run, grapple/takedown, or pick up ANYthing near by and get an improvised weapon so at least you can defend yourself.

Also as a note, if you choose to damage the opponent in a grapple you also inflict fatigue no matter your actual damage.



#4 vikingwookiee

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:51 AM

RagingKiwi said:

 

I beleive this system is in place to stop players from killing NPCs (or each other) in a simple fight. I have a few instances where my players wanted to start a drunken brawl, and in these situations I ignore armour if anyone is wearing. It would make sence to me that if you are fighting someone in armour unarmed, you won't be trying to kill him, you'll only be trying to knock him over/out, so grapple, takedown talent and stun are the go to for my players.

 

However in combat if you find yourself with no weapons and without unarmed warrior/master I would say you have 3 options, run, grapple/takedown, or pick up ANYthing near by and get an improvised weapon so at least you can defend yourself.

 

Also as a note, if you choose to damage the opponent in a grapple you also inflict fatigue no matter your actual damage.

 

  

 

I’d actually include armour in the stuff what happens if your squad starts a fight with some of the Miltary Police on the base they as they’re on duty would more than likely be wearing armour where as your squad probably aren’t  because there out on a drinking spree which neatly removes the armour from the equation



#5 RagingKiwi

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:36 AM

Thankfully that hasn't happened yet, though if i were to Military Police, the -20WS to attack anyone who is armed with any weapon normally stops them from taking too much of a beating, also they more than likely have permission to use leathal force anyway, that notion scares the characters a lot, especially when they're unarmed.



#6 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 08:15 AM

I'm not sure unarmed combat is likely to result in accidental death (unless you have people die at 0 Wounds).

Say we have 2 combatants with SB3 and TB3 each and 8 Wounds. Let's say each attack hits and does the maximum of 5 Wounds.

First hit does 1 Fatigue and brings Wounds to 6.

Second hit brings target down to 2 Fatigue and 4 Wounds.

Third hit, down to 3 Fatigue and 2 Wounds.

Fourthm down to 4 Fatigue (knocked out) and 0 Wounds.

That sounds right to me… Knocked out, not dead, but probably needs to go to the hospital.

Or are my math or rules wrong?



#7 RagingKiwi

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:56 PM

Your math is good, however there is one sentence in these rules, if you deal damage that is equal or greater than the opponents TB, then you also inflict fatigue.

So in the example, it would go exactly as you said, except noone would gain fatigue. As you inflicted 2 damage each time and thier TB is 3.

What you said seems right, and it is more than possible I'm interpreting this wrong.

 



#8 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:13 AM

RagingKiwi said:

Your math is good, however there is one sentence in these rules, if you deal damage that is equal or greater than the opponents TB, then you also inflict fatigue.

So in the example, it would go exactly as you said, except noone would gain fatigue. As you inflicted 2 damage each time and thier TB is 3.

What you said seems right, and it is more than possible I'm interpreting this wrong.

 

Well I was assuming that by "damage" what is meant is "damage before reduction by TB." Distinguishing between Damage and Wounds.

Otherwise, two guys with SB3 and TB3 couldn't knock each other out, just beat each other into crits.



#9 Droma

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:08 PM

bogi_khaosa said:

RagingKiwi said:

 

Your math is good, however there is one sentence in these rules, if you deal damage that is equal or greater than the opponents TB, then you also inflict fatigue.

So in the example, it would go exactly as you said, except noone would gain fatigue. As you inflicted 2 damage each time and thier TB is 3.

What you said seems right, and it is more than possible I'm interpreting this wrong.

 

 

 

Well I was assuming that by "damage" what is meant is "damage before reduction by TB." Distinguishing between Damage and Wounds.

Otherwise, two guys with SB3 and TB3 couldn't knock each other out, just beat each other into crits.



This is how it works. Damage is the total amount you deal before subtracting armour or toughness. If it worked as normal unarmed fights between armoured opponents would simply never end.

 






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