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Three Bells Questions


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#1 Runix

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:38 PM

Question that came up in a recent game:  can Three Bells trigger even if one or more players do not have any characters?

The card text, for reference:  "Pay 1 and exhaust The Three Bells to have each player choose and sacrifice a character."

My read is no, but I can see it either way.  According the FAQ 1.5, "A player cannot trigger a card effect that requires him to choose a character, support card, or story card if there is no card of that type that he is able to choose."  However . . . that may mean only that the triggering player must be able to choose a character; that is, a player may be able to trigger it if he has a character but his opponent does not (although it would be a rare case where that would be beneficial).

Next question:  can Ipiutak fire off Three Bells?

My read is no, but again, I think it's close.  Ipiutak reads "after a character you control was chosen as the only target of a triggered effect . . . "  As far as I can tell, Three Bells will have two targets chosen (by two players).  An alternate reading, however, would see Three Bells as triggering two effects, each of which has one character as the only target, which would allow Ipiutak to respond.

Finally, not a Three Bells question, but related:  can Ipiutak fire off Temple of R'lyeh?

My read again is no, but again, I think it's vague.  Temple clearly chooses the opponent as the target, with the opponent then sacrificing a character.  There's only one character that is ultimately impacted, but I think technically it's not a target, as "choose" is not used in conjunction with it - unless it's implied?

The faculty and students of Miskatonic University await the court's verdict with great interest.



#2 jhaelen

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:40 PM

Runix said:

Question that came up in a recent game:  can Three Bells trigger even if one or more players do not have any characters?

The card text, for reference:  "Pay 1 and exhaust The Three Bells to have each player choose and sacrifice a character."

My read is no, but I can see it either way.  According the FAQ 1.5, "A player cannot trigger a card effect that requires him to choose a character, support card, or story card if there is no card of that type that he is able to choose."  However . . . that may mean only that the triggering player must be able to choose a character; that is, a player may be able to trigger it if he has a character but his opponent does not (although it would be a rare case where that would be beneficial).

Next question:  can Ipiutak fire off Three Bells?

My read is no, but again, I think it's close.  Ipiutak reads "after a character you control was chosen as the only target of a triggered effect . . . "  As far as I can tell, Three Bells will have two targets chosen (by two players).  An alternate reading, however, would see Three Bells as triggering two effects, each of which has one character as the only target, which would allow Ipiutak to respond.

Finally, not a Three Bells question, but related:  can Ipiutak fire off Temple of R'lyeh?

My read again is no, but again, I think it's vague.  Temple clearly chooses the opponent as the target, with the opponent then sacrificing a character.  There's only one character that is ultimately impacted, but I think technically it's not a target, as "choose" is not used in conjunction with it - unless it's implied?

The faculty and students of Miskatonic University await the court's verdict with great interest.

I agree with your interpretation in all three cases.

1) Doesn't work because there aren't suffiicent valid targets.

2) Doesn't work because there's more than one target.

3) Doesn't work because it doesn't target a character.



#3 HilariousPete

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:54 PM

I agree to your opinion and Jhaelen's.

1) Your initial reading is right, every player needs to be able to choose+sacrifice a character so that you may trigger the Bells' effect. FFG created a new game term for this, see here (2nd section, 4th paragraph). Sadly, FFG didn't add this term to the FAQ :-(

2) Not sure here myself, but I'd also say "no". I don't think the selection of the targets happens in different effects (there's no "then" separating it - if "then" even splits an effect in 2 subeffects…), so I'd say The Three Bells' effect chooses at least 2 characters, making it unavailable for Ipiutak.

3) The Temple lets you choose a player, not a character. The sacrifice is untargeted. So Ipiutak can't be used.



#4 Danigral

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:12 AM

Thanks for that link, pete. Here it is quoted for reference:

"In Call of Cthulhu: The Card Game, the phrase “have each player choose and sacrifice a character,” necessitates that each player be able to choose and sacrifice a character. This means, your The Three Bells must claim the sacrifice of your character in order to force the sacrifice of your opponent’s (and visa versa)…"






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