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Steely Gaze: "until your next turn?"


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#1 Emirikol

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:47 AM

How does the target get to approach you on your next action?



#2 r_b_bergstrom

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:41 PM

Emirikol said:

 

How does the target get to approach you on your next action?

 

 

 

They're _not_ saying the target gets bonus movement on your next turn. What the card intends is that the target cannot approach you on the target's next 1 to 2 turns.  The slightly odd phrasing is because of initiative rolls belonging to the group, not to individuals. The card in ensuring you get to act again before the target can approach.

 

Let's assume, for relative simplicity, that the scene involves 1 PC vs 2 monsters. The PC has an initiative token on space 2 of the Initiative track. The monsters have initiative tokens on spaces 3 and 1.  

On #3, a monster attacks (or whatever)

On #2 the player in question uses Steely Gaze on the monster that hasn't acted yet.

On #1, the target monster acts, but is forced to manoeuvre away from the PC. During this action, it can't approach the PC. (As GM, I'd probably require that the target must manoeuvre away before using an action, but as written the card doesn't technically prevent them from making an attack and then retreating.)

The new round starts.

On #3, one of the monsters gets to act again. If the GM chooses to activate the monster that was the target of steely gaze, it still can't approach the PC, because the PC hasn't taken his next action yet.

On #2 the PC gets to act. Nothing special happens at this time.

On #1 the other monster gets to act. Even if the monster activated now is  the one previously targeted by steely gaze, that monster is now free to approach the PC, because that PC has already taken "your next action".

 

It gets more complicated with more initiative tokens on the track. Assuming the initiative rolls allow it, it is entirely legal for the PC to go first one round and go last in the next round so as to intentionally keep the target beyond arm's length for two entire turns.

 

(And, of course, any time I wrote monster, that could just as well be a NPC nobleman or cultist engaged in some sort of social shenanigan as opposed to a full-on battle.)



#3 Yepesnopes

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:13 PM

I don't allow actions with the Social trait like Fake Out, Steely Gaze, or Winning Smile to be used in combat situations, for sure not against non-human targets.

This is to avoid situations like for example a Giant (or similar) attaking the party but not allowed to attack /approach the group of PCs because the use of such cards.

Cheers,

Yepes


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#4 DurakBlackaxe

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:34 PM

Cant imagine a gaint being able to even see the persons eyes. But yeah, i think I sort of agree with Yepesnopes, this doesnt really look to be a combat action. Unless someone can think of why a steel look would scare anyone in combat?

 

I wonder if you can counteract it with something else, for example the orcs leader hitting him on the head and saying get in their or die sort of thing.



#5 Emirikol

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 05:11 AM

I totally let people use social actions in combat.  Steely gaze is a great example.  Being intimidating in combat is essential.

Some of the others might not be as relevant:  formal diplomacy while parrying with a foe who understands that, yes..informal carousing no, not so much.

Cracking a joke against an opponent seems pretty cool to me and definately something that isn't good for finishing combat, but it certainly adds memorable moments.

 

 

CORE/Player's Guide (p274+) (Green/Red) Purple/black

1.        Big City Bravado (G/R)b

2.        Conundrum (G/R)-

3.        Devious Manoeuvre (G/R)-

4.        Exploit Opening (G/R)b

5.        Fake Out (G)-®b

6.        Fear Me! (G/R)bb

7.        Fluster (G/R)bb

8.        Formal Diplomacy/Informal Carousingg (G)bb®P

9.        Honeyed Words (G/R)--

10.     I Thought We Were Friends (G/R)b

11.     Inspiring Words (G/R)bb

12.     Scrutinise (G/R)b

13.     Staring Contest (G/R)-

14.     Steely Gaze (G/R)-

15.     Trivial Knowledge (G/R)-

16.     Twisting Words (G/R)-

17.     Winning Smile (G/R)-

Lure of Power

18.     Blather  ®Pb (G)P

19.     Berate/Belittle ® bb(G)b

20.     bad witch hunter (R/G)--

21.     Compose yourself (both)PP

22.     Bribery (R/G) b

23.     Bolster (R/G)Pb

24.     Feel for the Moment (R/G)PPb

25.     Don't you know who I work for? (R/G)b

26.     Crack a Joke (R/G) b

27.     Intuit Intention (R/Gb

28.     Flirt ®bb(G)b

29.     Quip (R/G)-

30.     Perfect Gift (R/G)PP

31.     Obfuscate/Elucidate (R/G)P

32.     Skeleton in the Closet ®P(G)-

33.     Sermon (R/G)PP

34.     Sage Advice (R/G)-

35.     Twist the Knife (R/G)-

36.     Teller of Tales (R/G)PP

37.     Style and Grace ®PP(G)Pb

Black Fire Pass

38.     Litany of Grudges-Dwarf only (G)PP®-

39.     Social Drinking (G)PP®P

40.     Dwarf Stubbornness-Dwarf only (G/R)-

41.     Foam in the Moustache (R/G)PP

Liber Fanatica #8 (pull-out section)

42.     Solemn Glance (G)Pb®Pbb

43.     Putting it As it Is/Verbal Fireworks (G)PP®P

44.     Debater/trained Voice -enhance(G/R)--

45.     Look At'em Mommy's Boys!(G)Pb®Pbb

46.     Pulling the Plug/Tongue Lashing (G/R)P

47.     Scrimshank/Not Bothered (G)P®Pb

48.     Reading the Crowd/Chat'em up! (G)bb®P

 



#6 r_b_bergstrom

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 05:29 AM

Given that it requires eye-contact, I can happily concede that the circumstances where I'd let this be used mid-combat are pretty rare. Almost entire in one-on-one duels.

That said, in my (limited) real-world experience with violence, it certainly is possible to make someone pause, panic, retreat or just have second thoughts about their desire to fight you. That's basically what a morale check is all about. Allowing social actions to be used in a fight is a great way to ensure that the Scribes and Fops have something useful to contribute during a battle, which sounds good to me. To each their own, I guess.

Since it's clearly bothering people, I suppose I could go edit my post so that the example is a social encounter instead of a fight. It's no big deal to me.

EDIT: Oh right, I can't edit yesterday's post because this forum only gives you a 5 minute edit window. Oh, well.

 

Back on topic, it seemed like Emirikol was asking (in his original post) if this card somehow moved the bad guys initiative token or gave them a free move on your next action, the answer to either of which would be "no".  I figure the card is phrased so oddly because of how it interacts with the flexible group initiative system. It would suck to use an action to make someone back away, only to have them swap initiative order to get around it. The weird wording keeps the card from automatically sucking any time there's more than one opponent.

Another instance where the exact wording of this card is meaningful would be if the target had the Improved Dodge reaction card and you shot an arrow at them on your next action. If you missed, Improved Dodge would let them make a free manoeuvre to engage you. Not that that's likely happen very often, but it's remotely possible.

 



#7 dvang

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 06:51 AM

I agree with r_b_bergstrom.

The target doesn't get a free maneuver or anything on the user's turn.  The wording merely identifies at which point the effect ends, and the target is once again free to approach the user.  As mentioned, it has everything to do with the fluid nature of Initiative.

Ex:

If PC 'A' goes first in the first round, successfully using Steely Gaze on NPC 'X'.  NPC 'X' then has his turn and cannot approach 'A'.

In the next round, the group has PC 'A' go in the last PC initiative slot, which is after NPC 'X' has to take their action. Thus, in this situation, the effect of Steely Gaze actually affects NPC 'X' for 2 rounds.






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