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Amethyst Wizard worth it?


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#1 Mavlun

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 01:10 PM

Hey,

So I'm new to WFRP, and have sat in on a campaign, while also participating in one session of a new campaign. I wanted to play a Wizard, and the Amethyst College naturally attracted me cause it's just plain awesome. I built my character with the thought that hey, whatever, it won't be nearly as strong as a BW in combat, won't be nearly as useful as a Jade or Light wizard through utility, but at least it's got a cool theme that's pretty unique and awesome.

Now having looked through all the rank 1,2,3 spells we have at the store, I see that combat wise the amethyst wizard is on the extremely short end of the stick, utility wise it's zero other than 1 spell that may keep an ally from dying, and theme wise, is far from unique, as the whole dark robes/scythe thing is in fact a Priest of Morr thing as well as a Necromancer thing. Adding to that the fact that from what I can gather, Priests of Morr and Necromancers can do everything an Amethyst wizard can do, but better (more utility, more efficient with undead, etc.), why would anyone ever play an Amethyst Wizard?

I at least took solace in being able to talk to the dead, only to notice that that's in fact something that you do via a rank 2 spell, that allows you to ask only 1 single question, that doesn't even have to be answered truthfully. 

So…yeah. I'm just in a really bad place right now, kind of hating my choice.



#2 Emirikol

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 05:47 PM

Now having looked through all the rank 1,2,3 spells we have at the store, I see that combat wise the amethyst wizard is on the extremely short end of the stick, utility wise it's zero other than 1 spell that may keep an ally from dying, and theme wise, is far from unique, as the whole dark robes/scythe thing is in fact a Priest of Morr thing as well as a Necromancer thing. Adding to that the fact that from what I can gather, Priests of Morr and Necromancers can do everything an Amethyst wizard can do, but better (more utility, more efficient with undead, etc.), why would anyone ever play an Amethyst Wizard? I at least took solace in being able to talk to the dead, only to notice that that's in fact something that you do via a rank 2 spell, that allows you to ask only 1 single question, that doesn't even have to be answered truthfully. So…yeah. I'm just in a really bad place right now, kind of hating my choice.

 

The Amythest wizard is in an interesting place in the world.  They really are spirit talkers and deathbringers.  They are different from Morrites (who protect the dead) and necromancers (who defile the dead).

 

Detect lies would be a good specialization skill to pick up, as would be a good look at other action cards for fear, communication, and probably assisting others to carry out ending of lives.

Don't count on action cards to make your life interesting.  Perform stunt is just fine at that as well.  :)

 

jh

 

 

..

 

 



#3 thePREdiger

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:19 PM

I have an Amythest wizard in my group and he is just great. Always cancels my fear/terror checks of my NPCs and blasts away undeads (we are playing Thousand Thrones atm).

I cannot relate to your "short end of the stick" when it comes to damage - also against non-undead NPCS he is doing really fine.



#4 OctoLux

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 10:24 PM

Mavlun said:

 

[…]

Adding to that the fact that from what I can gather, Priests of Morr and Necromancers can do everything an Amethyst wizard can do, but better (more utility, more efficient with undead, etc.), why would anyone ever play an Amethyst Wizard?

[…]

 

 

1) The scythe is cool, nobody else has the ability to let a darklight piece of death come forth from their staff and reap the harvest.

2) The Necromancer might have a slight problem in day to day affairs… like always having ot ward of witch hunters, priests of Morr, Flagellants and the occasional Vampire who wants to recruit him

3) Priest of Morr are dull and always burying people. Stopping by to pay respect and generally being PRIESTS, superstitious lot, all of them.

4) YOU however are a master of time, death and intimidation! Intinmidation is the special skill you can pick instead of one of your class skills. Now combine that with icy stare, air of authority and a scyth of pruple energy and I want to see that foppish, haughty, self -important piece of Averlander Horse-sh… of a burocrat who refuses to make your request TOP PRIORITY.

Of course when you reach the rank of Epicness, beeing able to kill henchemen with a thought or wound all enemies in close range with every amethyst spell you cast for 2 without any soak… that is nice.

AND you can prevent death!!!! And criticals to you… AND have the scyth… man.. I think I DO play an Amathyst Wizard the next time…

FEAR ME MORTALS your time is UP!

Muhahahahahha


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#5 No:12

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 10:45 PM

Hi,

Regarding short end of the combat stick, train WS out of career and give yourself a reasonable strength, then buy Omens of War and use the zweihander actions in conjunction with your magical scythe, top it off with Thunderous Blow and you will be the bringer of death.

When I looked at Amethyst as a GM this is the first combo I thought may be quite fun. Decent Int stat, dump Fel in favour of intimidate and that talent that allows for intelligence tests for a social interaction. Then have fun roleplaying a cantankerous *******….  ;)



#6 Mavlun

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:47 AM

 

Thank you all for answering.

Emirikol said:

The Amythest wizard is in an interesting place in the world.  They really are spirit talkers and deathbringers.  They are different from Morrites (who protect the dead) and necromancers (who defile the dead).

Detect lies would be a good specialization skill to pick up, as would be a good look at other action cards for fear, communication, and probably assisting others to carry out ending of lives.

Don't count on action cards to make your life interesting.  Perform stunt is just fine at that as well.  :)

jh

Except they're really not spirit talkers or deathbringers are they? Their attack spells are weak, and as for talking to spirits, that's what bugged me the most. Seriously, it takes a rank 2 spell to talk to the spirits, and you can only ask 1 single question which they don't even have to answer truthfuly? Seriously?

thePREdiger said:

I have an Amythest wizard in my group and he is just great. Always cancels my fear/terror checks of my NPCs and blasts away undeads (we are playing Thousand Thrones atm).

I cannot relate to your "short end of the stick" when it comes to damage - also against non-undead NPCS he is doing really fine.

If you could give me a heads up on what he's using to cause the good damage to non-undead NPCs, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks in advance :)



#7 Mavlun

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:15 AM

OctoLux said:

Mavlun said:

 

[…]

Adding to that the fact that from what I can gather, Priests of Morr and Necromancers can do everything an Amethyst wizard can do, but better (more utility, more efficient with undead, etc.), why would anyone ever play an Amethyst Wizard?

[…]

 

 

1) The scythe is cool, nobody else has the ability to let a darklight piece of death come forth from their staff and reap the harvest.

2) The Necromancer might have a slight problem in day to day affairs… like always having ot ward of witch hunters, priests of Morr, Flagellants and the occasional Vampire who wants to recruit him

3) Priest of Morr are dull and always burying people. Stopping by to pay respect and generally being PRIESTS, superstitious lot, all of them.

4) YOU however are a master of time, death and intimidation! Intinmidation is the special skill you can pick instead of one of your class skills. Now combine that with icy stare, air of authority and a scyth of pruple energy and I want to see that foppish, haughty, self -important piece of Averlander Horse-sh… of a burocrat who refuses to make your request TOP PRIORITY.

Of course when you reach the rank of Epicness, beeing able to kill henchemen with a thought or wound all enemies in close range with every amethyst spell you cast for 2 without any soak… that is nice.

AND you can prevent death!!!! And criticals to you… AND have the scyth… man.. I think I DO play an Amathyst Wizard the next time…

FEAR ME MORTALS your time is UP!

Muhahahahahha

 

Yeah see you make it sound cool exactly like in the manuals, but in actual game terms that doesn't really translate. I mean it's like role playing mike tyson, except your character is a pasty 90 pound dude, but the manual says you can totally kick ass, except..you can't :D

I was totally digging the whole "if they wanted they could challenge the bright wizards or Gelt or whoever and wouldn't have much trouble winning", or the "can stop a man's heart in his chest and make it look like a heart attack" vibe, and then I look at the spells and it's like "can make people feel better about losing relatives" :D :D :D



#8 Mavlun

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:17 AM

 

No:12 said:

Hi,

Regarding short end of the combat stick, train WS out of career and give yourself a reasonable strength, then buy Omens of War and use the zweihander actions in conjunction with your magical scythe, top it off with Thunderous Blow and you will be the bringer of death.

When I looked at Amethyst as a GM this is the first combo I thought may be quite fun. Decent Int stat, dump Fel in favour of intimidate and that talent that allows for intelligence tests for a social interaction. Then have fun roleplaying a cantankerous *******….  ;)

That actually sounds pretty awesome, thanks for the idea. My question is do you think he'd survive long in the frontlines? I mean in the last campaign, the end fight was with a Nurgle Sorc, 3 nurglings, some mutant and a plaguebearer and the party's ironbreaker nearly died from fighting the plaguebearer (got left with a couple of wounds). 



#9 Kiton

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 03:24 PM

For offensive combat, the Dark Hand of Death spell is rank 1, medium range and fairly versatile. 4+WP, can go against the target's Willpower instead of Toughness for soaking with the right successes or boons, can ignore armour soak, and could deal extra damage on a comet depending on crits they already have [or crit if none].

Not Yet Time lets you convert critical wounds to normal ones at a cost of its recharge tokens; that'll help you in big fights when using the Scythe.

Only mage I've played extensively is Celestial; while my offensive abilities aren't great, the ability to toy with the dicepools and recharge rates comes in very handy.



#10 Emirikol

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 04:43 PM

I personally feel that the Amethyst wizard is very powerful in comparison to 95% of the other careers out there.  He's supposed to be able to attack with spells and death brings him benefit.  He is most powerful against lighter armoured opponents and the weak minded. 

His career ability is:  At any point after you've cast a spell you recharge a spell faster if a creature dies.  That seems relevant and equal to other careers.

His second career ability is:  attuned magic item that stores power.  Non-spellcasters do not get this.  

Characteristics:  Intelligence and willpower:  willpower is there for the fear spells.  Pick up training in weapon skill (only 2 xp) and you pretty much rule the day.

Skills:    Standard skill set is: channeling, discipline, education, intuition, magical sight, observation, Spellcraft.

Amethyst_Wizard___Warhammer_by_aaronmill

Advancement potential: 3action, 2 talent, 4 skill, 2 fortune, 1 green, 1 red, 1 wound.  2 fortune is pretty dang powerful.  

Spell evaluations (rank1):

Acceptance of faith:  this is an over-specialized spell as it's only useful againt terror/fear creatures.  This is the last one I'd choose.  maybe stick it on a scroll.

Dark Hand of Death:  Every amethyst wizard should have this in his repertoir. 

WHF06_DarkHandDeath.png

Death's messenger:  this is a support spell useful for social, subterfuge, or combat situations.

Deathsight: this is an undead-hunter spell, it is specialized

**Not Yet Time: This allows you to go into combat and essentially avoid critical wounds, just like an Ironbreaker or Ogre. Seems pretty powerful to me.

**Reaping Scythe: This gives you a great weapon equal or greater than that of the Swordmaster that can be used in combination with other melee weapon actions (such as reckless cleave).  

So, now you've got the power of essentially TWO of the most powerful careers in the game to break combat.  I'd spend 2 x.p to train Weapon Skill and then for combat, take one round with your companions to buff-up and go clean house.   If the swordmaster  could spend 2 xp to cast spells, it maybe would be equal..but it's not.  This career can easily be min-maxed and become a pretty plain old murderer in combat.

Rune of Shysh: Undead ward.  Specialised. Save it for a scroll.

Rank 2 spells: 
Speak with the dead (final words).  You have Intuition acquired, train it and add "detect Lies" specialization.  Problem solved.
Doom & gloom:   this is an area effect spell, which is very powerful in WFRP
Steal life:  similar to the dark magic spells

Rank 3 spells: 

Death's door:  This spell seems inappropriate to me.  The amethyst wizard is clearly just a murderer, why would he save the dying.  This seems much more like a Light college spell.
Death's Release:  you can do 10-20 points of damage ignoring all soak to an undead.  This is specialized and really only useful against undead of course.
Tide of Years:  you cause the creature targeted loses a soak, blue to damage and attack (strength), and a blue to agility.

Thoughts on support actions:  The rank 2 and 3 spells thin out for all spellcasters, so it is imperative to branch out into those measly little action cards that 'every other career is stuck with'.   :)  Non-career completion expendatures will make this career more versatile.

 

From what I see this career is certainly more powerful compared to non-spellcasting careers except perhaps the ironbreaker.  There are only tow balancing factors: weapon skill costs 2xp, and their armour is going to be light (but with the ignore critical spell, this is kind of irrelevant)..it certainly makes them more powerful than a Wardancer and more versatile.  The trollslayer is more powerful in combat because of his guaranteed higher strength, but then again Trollslayers cannot cast spells and they're one-trick battle ponies.  

I didn't compare them to other spellcasters, but I doubt there are Reaping scythe spells out there for the others.

If you want to make him even tougher, you can add something like Steely Gaze:

Gurni_SteelyGaze.png

best of luck

 

jh


Edited by Emirikol, 15 October 2013 - 10:56 AM.


#11 flyndad

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:32 PM

While we are on the Amethyst Wizard topic, I have a rule question that would also apply rather broadly to other characters.

Is the scythe produced by ………   opps,.. already answerd. 

I was wondering about the combining Reaping Scythe with other "regular" cards. 

WOW!!!  If you also include some talents that allow you to remove recharge tokens, this wizard can do some seriously lethal damage in a very short time! 

ooooooooo,.. I like it,.. (and in the words of the immortal Loyd Christmas), "I like it a lot."  ,…   burla



#12 Emirikol

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:57 AM

I'm starting to think a scenario involving Khaine and the Amethyst college would be a cool idea...



#13 Emirikol

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 03:24 PM

Necro'd for recent discussions on wizards...



#14 ElCommi

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 07:51 AM

Necro'd for recent discussions on wizards...

As an aside. When calculating spell damage: the soak value on armour counts?

 



#15 k7e9

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:36 AM

Yes, armour soaks spell damage unless the spell says otherwise.

 

Some spells does wounds instead of damage though, and when they do wounds you do not apply soak.


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#16 ElCommi

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 12:19 PM

Where does it mention the wound v damage distinction?



#17 k7e9

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 12:47 AM

I do believe it's hinted at in a blog post from FFG:

http://www.fantasyfl...s.asp?eidn=1287

 

Also in the Player's Guide page 102 under Armour & Shields they write that soak is damage reduction (not "wound reduction").

 

I think I've seen a clearer explanation regading the difference between damage and wounds, but can't seem to find it at the moment.


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#18 ElCommi

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 03:09 AM

I do believe it's hinted at in a blog post from FFG:

http://www.fantasyfl...s.asp?eidn=1287

 

Also in the Player's Guide page 102 under Armour & Shields they write that soak is damage reduction (not "wound reduction").

 

I think I've seen a clearer explanation regading the difference between damage and wounds, but can't seem to find it at the momen

Yeah. It seems fairly clear in the blog post!

Thanks for that.






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