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#1 mysteriousbill



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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:26 AM

Now that I have most of the basic rules down. Are there any rules for levels or altitude. Space is 3 dimensional and this game seems to be 2 D

#2 Buhallin



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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:11 AM

The game is indeed 2D.  Someone out there probably has some homebrew rules for altitude/elevation handling, but I haven't seen them.  You might look to Wings of Glory for inspiration.

#3 DB Draft

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 11:39 PM

I don't even think the concept of altitude applies in space and therefore is completely unnecessary.  Altitude in traditional games reflects a change in the pressure and "thickness" of the medium being travelled through.  On Earth the air is thinner at higher altitudes above sea level which will affect aerodynamics and engine output.  These things do not occur in space as far as I am aware.  

Atitude is more important than altitude! 

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#4 Sergovan


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Posted 07 April 2013 - 12:08 AM

mysteriousbill said:

Now that I have most of the basic rules down. Are there any rules for levels or altitude. Space is 3 dimensional and this game seems to be 2 D

Only one rule even comments on 3D movement.

Moving Through a Ship

"Ships can move through space occupied by other ships without penalty; it is assumed the ships have sufficient time and room to maneuver around them in 3D space" p. 17


The other factor that would be used in an atmospheric 3D environment would be gravity. The ability to use it to gain speed as you dove to attack an opponent. With no gravity in space and no pressure differences from an atmosphere, 3D movement doesn't need to be tracked as much as there is no net gain from it. 

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#5 tinnitus



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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:21 AM

As mentioned earlier space doesn't have physical dependencies with altitude as aerial combat do. This would probably be of low importance in x-wing anyway but there is another important factor to consider: Space has no ground. Higher altitude gives you an advantage when attacking - you can pick up speed as you drop and a low flying target has to stay clear of the ground when trying to avoid you.

One of the main reasons most game developers tend to omit rules for a third dimension in space is that the (fairly low) enhancement of the game experience doesn't justify the (fairly high) increase in complexity and rules.

#6 Ken at Sunrise

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 04:41 AM



Altitude combined with Attitude as in the direction you are facing could be fun.  We made varient rule for SFB once.  You could only play a few ships at a time because you get a mess, haha.


But if you're facing up (vertically) or even at a 45 degree angle and someone is horizontal facing you then they may have a shot from beneath you and you couldn't respond.


Could be too complicated for this game though.

#7 Himmelganger



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Posted 20 April 2013 - 09:59 PM

As far as there is no up or down in space that I agree with. But there is a "vertical" componant to space. You would use this "vertical" to shorten a manuver for example, that introduces three dimmensional manuvers which the game is sorely lacking. A very easy way to implement the vertical plane is to use different colored dice to donate a vertical plane. Say blue for positive and red for negative numbers. A single manuver length is about 1/2 of a range band length. Easiest way to implement it is to allow a pilot to convert, on a one for one basis, the manuver's length to vertical shifts. So if you have a type 3 manuver selected you can shift up to 3 levels of vertical plane either up or down. You would have to set a vertical limit to denote the limit of the batte space, just like the edge of the playing area. 3 feet/1 m is about 18-20 manuver lengths so you can use that number as your vertical limit, or bigger limits with bigger playing fields. Be warned thought this will change the game dramaticlly. It will become deadlier, and pilot skill will have a much greater impact. The pilot/gamers that can think and use the vertical will likely come out ahead, and as it will become harder to shake off an enemy from your six, it will be very important to keep that six clear, and not allow anyone on your tail.

#8 KineticOperator



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Posted 21 April 2013 - 02:46 AM

With 3 or less ships, there is literally 0 difference between a "2d" game and a "3d" game.  No matter what you may imagine the dogfight looking like, those 3 ships are maneuvering on a plane relative to one another.  It matters in an atmosphere because all ships/aircraft would be maneuvering relative to an actual plane (the ground), which would "count" as 3 ships for purposes of relative movement.

WIth 4 or more ships, there is generally very little vertical movement either.  More, the only way it matters is if velocity "vertically" were to create a significant distance to one ship where distance to other ships is mostly "horizontal".  Since ships would generally be accelarting towards, away from, and perpendicular to one another, until you exceed 3 ships on a single side the potential for significant "vertical" separation is almost 0.  In a game like X-Wing where vectored movement is not used, you add next to nothing in terms of relative positioning and maneuvering.

In the end this is just the long version of the explanation offered above.  It adds very little to gameplay while requiring a very large amount of recordkeeping.

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