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THE MOTHER FLIPPING DANSE MACABRE THREAD


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#1 LordZoma

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:38 AM

 

 

Bigger issue with last nights game. Reaper may not teleport to the inner region (Offical FAQ). So Courtney would have won as she could have just spent all day in the tower exping.
 
its the same thing as the battle royale
end game card would trump it, so the reaper would take precedence.
 
FAQ was published after reaper and the ending was made.
 
doesnt matter
the rules clearly state what happens with the werewolf
but the ending card says what you do, period, and that trumps it
so why should it be any different when a different ending contradicts a different rules mechanic
 
Problem is an FAQ is meant to clarify. and it clearly address the situation.
 
link it
 
 
ending card says "must send the reaper to visit any character in any region
it clearly states any region. the ending card, like in the other ruling, would trump any rules violation
so normally the fq applies, and if you roll a 1 and grim reaper bounces around on the 5, its not going where it can't go
but the ending says must, and any.
why would you not do what the ending says.
 
Because it has been erattaed
 
no it hasn't
i don't see an errata to the 'danse macabre' ending anywhere
 
Maybe worth a post on forum. But obviously I agreed that it makes sense for him to be able to go there given the ending.
 
realistically
what it should mean is that
if you are in the outer region
and i sent the reaper to you
and you roll a 5
the reaper cannot be sent back to me
because the reaper can't enter the middle region
but a character on the crown of command is encountering the ending
so while on the CoC the text says, you MUST, so the reaper would get sent out to anyone, even someone in the inner region
but if that person rolls a 5, he wouldnt be able to send it back to the CoC
 
No inner region is inner region
cant have cake and eat it too
 
warlock on fantasy flight disagrees
"I would stick to the Danse Macabre text. It says that only the Character on the Crown of Command cand send the Reaper to other Characters in any Region. The game shall come to an end and the Character that should be advantaged is the one on the Crown space, not his opponents.
 
Other Characters can lose Lives but the only result they fear is the 1 or 2 on the die. But still they have Fate to prevent death, so the Character on the Crown may have a hard time winning the game. If he also had to face the Reaper coming back to him it is going to be even harder. It might be better to wait for someone else to reach the Crown, and in the meantime to build a good Fate reserve and later send the Reaper back to him!
 
I am pretty sure the Character on the Crown can not be the target of the "There has been a mistake" result."
i agree with what he said
 
Even with the Danse Macabre, the Reaper can not go to the Inner region.
 
The Golden rule will not work now.
 
Somewhat clarified by John Goodenough in a mail
 
the character on the crown of command, like all other endings, should be at an advantage to the others. but byeond that, by normal rules the reaper can't enter the inner region, so the only way to contradict that is by trumping it with the end card text. danse says send it to any character any region, so once the character on the coc sends it out
 
Jon Goodenough is the game desiner
 
it wouldn't be able to come back
 
Cant get much higher than him
 
nobody posted what he said, and it was allegedly claimed in a private email
based on previous rulings with the battle royale
 
that is much higher than some forum posters
 
the text of the ending card trumps
 
The person who said he got the email is also a highly respected member of the community.
 
'somewhat clarified' doesnt answer anything
 
It would take than more than other forum posters
 
previous game ruling indicates that the ending card text
would be followed in the same fashion as battle royale
 
Battle royale is vauge
 
and the answer is that the ending card trumps normal rules
 
This has a specific rule that says you canot not do that.
 
and yet the ending card says
"if a character is on the crown of command and no other characters are present, he must send the grim reaper to visit any character in any region"
that's about as non vague as you can get.
MUST and ANY
a character who rolls 'there has been a mistake result' is not being instructed by an ending card to go to 'must or any'
and so they would have to abide by normal rules
a reaper can never be moved to the innter region, even with the there has been a mistake result
 
Its in FAQ. Battle Royal does not break any rules and is vauge in how it is to be executed
 
yes, and danse macabre is NOT vague
so by normal rules, any player who rolls a 5 CANNOT send the reaper to the middle
 
but it has a rule conflict with a higher rule source
 
while a charater on the CoC follows the text on the ending card
no it doesnt
 
FAQ and high forum poster says no
with guidance from game desiner
 
"A: The Reaper can never be moved into the Inner Region even with the "There has been a mistake" result."
THATS what goodenough said
so when someone rolls a 5
he cant send the reaper back to the crown of command
however when AT the crown of command, and encountering the ending card
 
No
 
the card says MUST send the reaper to ANY region
 
Crown of command is not a new region
 
of course it violates normal rules
 
no it is violating FAQ updated rules
 
its designed to
 
along with normal
 
yes because it is an ENDING CARD
with SPECIAL RULES
that says you MUST send the reaper to ANY character in ANY region
 
But FAQ was released after ending
 
yes, to address QUESTIONS
 
it is eratta
 
QUESTION can you send the reaper to the inner region with a 5 result. Answer NO YOU CANNOT
so putting those two together means
on the CoC you send the reaper out
and whoever gets it CANNOT send it back with the 5
 
but bot to someone in the inner region
 
yes
because the card says MUST and ANY
it just cant be bounced back to anyone in the inner or CoC
because the bounce back is normal rules
 
but can not trumps those
 
CoC is end card
Of course it can
its the ending card
it tells you specifically exactly what you have to do
 
but FAQ clarifies ending card
 
no it doesnt
show me where it says DANSE MACABRE in the faq
you wont be able to, because it doesnt
 
SHow me where it says that DANSE MACABRE is specifically able to send it to someone in the inner region. As in it says "DANCSE MACABRE can send the reaper to any region including the inner region"
I can play that game too
 
on the card
 
where does it call out the inner region
it just says any
 
ANY = INNER
 
Nope
 
you're retarded
it says ANY region
 
It does not say it can voilate the rules.
 
it says specifically what to do
on the card itself
MUST send the reaper to visit ANY character in ANY region
OUTER region, MIDDLE region, INNER region
ANY region
 
Well Velhart who is highly regarded says that you cant send it to inner. So Fourms say no.
 
YOU CANT send the reaper to the inner region
in normal game mechanics
that's in the rules
and is NOT disputed
 
The thread is talking about Danse
you linked me it
 
I am well aware, I read them all
The reaper cannot be sent into the inner region by normal rules mechanics
 
so you disagree with the thread then
 
no
i agree with a number of people who understand the game and have the same opinion, like warlock
 
you pick and choose who you lisen too in the thread
 
THE ENTIRE SITUATION IS FAIRLY SELF EVIDENT
THE CARD TELLS YOU WHAT TO DO
YOU FOLLOW THE ENDING CARD
NORMAL RULES STATE REAPER CANNOT GO INTO INNER REGION
SO WHEN THE CHARACTER ON THE COC SENDS THE REAPER OUT
IF THAT PERSON ROLLS A 5, THEY CANNOT SEND IT BACK BECAUSE THE RULES PREVENT THEM FROM DOING SO
HOWEVER THE CHARACTER ON THE CROWN OF COMMAND FOLLOWS THE TEXT OF THE ENDING CARD
 
I CAN TYPE IN ALL CAPS TOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
CONVERSATION OVER, YOU ARE WRONG, AND THATS THE ANSWER
THINK ABOUT IT LOGICALLY
 
i OWN THE GAME
 
IM SURE YOU'LL EVENTUALLY UNDERSTAND
 
SO I AM RIGHT.
 
that's a retarded argument
 
BUT I CAN HAVE MY MIND CHANGE
SO IS THIS ONE!!!!
 
its simple
1: You follow the text on the ending card to the letter
2: You follow normal game rules.
3: If text on the ending violates normal game rules, it doesn't matter, because the ending card is telling you exactly what to do.
so following 1, the reaper must be sent to anyone anywhere.
doesnt matter if normal rules contradict it, the ending card says do it, you do it.
 
this is much simmplier
 
a person who rolls a 5 is not following the ending card, they're following normal game mechanics
so they cannot send it back to the center, because they are not instructed by the ending that they MUST do it
 
Can just make house rule. In that we played it right. Even though the FAQ does specifically say the reaper cannot enter the middle region as he is all ready there
 
we didnt play it right
because the reaper cannot be sent back to the crown of command on the there has been a mistake result
 
right according to the FAQ the reapper cannot enter the middle
 
correct
 
FAQ > game card.
 
the faq does not address the game card
the faq covers normal rules
 
it address the character known as the reaper
 
yes
 
which is what the game card is using.
 
and completely and unequivocably covers every rule regarding the reaper
however the end game card tells you SPECIFICALLY you MUST send it to ANY character in ANY region
so the character on the CoC sends the reaper out
 
If reaper can go to the inner region it can go to crown of command.
 
and whoever receives it, if tey roll a 5, cannot send the reaper back to the person on the CoC
because they are not allowed to by the rules
and are not being instructed by the ending card
 
because the only reason it cannot supposedly go to the inner region is because he is already there. Game ending breaks that piece. So every one can then do it.
 
no
because the only person encountering the crown of command card
is the person ON the crown of command
so the person ON the crown follows the instructions on the card
a person not on the crown follows normal game rules
 
The best you are going to get me to agree too is that when the ending is reveled it changes the reaper mechanic and allows him to enter inner region.
 
ONLY for the person on the crown
 
No Ending trumps normal game rules
 
says its my turn
and im on the crown of command
I ENCOUNTER the ending card
and follow the text
abiding by the text, when it reaches the part, MUST send the REAPER to ANY CHARCTER
it happens
then when person B is ANYWHERE else
and encountesr the reaper
they encounter THE GRIM REAPER
and rolling a 5, they cannot send it to someone in the inner region or the crown, as per the game rules outlined in the faq
 
Reaper card does not say he cannot enter inner. It is only additional rules that adds that.
 
correct. official rules clearly outlined in the faq
 
we will agree to disagree. Either the reaper ending changes all game rules or it does not.
 
that's an insane way of looking at it
the person encountering the ending card, follows the text
theres no reason to throw the rules out the window
you just do what the card says
CARD says MUST send the reaper to ANY character in ANY region
YOU FOLLOW THE CARD
it happens
but once joe schmo encounters the reaper
hes not following the specific non vague text on the ending card
so he cant just magically break the rules of the game
just because the rules were violated as a result of the instructions on the end game card previously encountered by the character on the crown of command
just because person A is specifically instructed to do something
doesn't mean everyone else can. They didn't encounter the cardo n the crown, they aren't obligated to MUST send it ANYWHERE, so there's no reason for them to be able to violate normal game rules
 
Too late in the night to do digging around the forums, but IIRC, the official answer is that Reaper can't get to the Inner Region in any way, shape or form, including Dance Macabre ending.
 
2:26pm
i read it already
that person is making **** up
and misunderstanding the actual contents of the errata
which states what we already knew
which is that the grim reaper cannot enter the inner region or go to the crown of command
therefore when anyone anywhere rolls the 5 result
the reaper cannot be sent to the inner region or the crown, as per the rules
but the person encountering the end game card on the crown of command, follows what the card says
which is that he must send the reaper to anyone anywhere.


#2 LordZoma

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:54 AM

 

Because he disagrees with you? Two people in different threads now say he cannot enter.
 
i dont care what anyone else says, the entire situation is blatantly clear by following the rules
you follow the rules of the game
and the ending card you do what it tells you to do
by simply doing what the end game card says
and following the normal rules
that is my entire position
any other position is a made up twisting of logic

Their is no execeptioin for an ending card that they knew existed prior to the FAQ.
 
theres no need to errata the ending card, because it is very, very clear
it says you MUST send it to ANYONE ANYWHERE
that doesnt leave any room for doubt
 
If they specifically allowed DANSE to do it they should have specified it in the official FAQ>. The card existed this is not a new issue. It was around when they printed it and they specifically called out the reaper.
Since they did not specifically address the card it stands that the rules are still enforced.
 
the rules say werewolves cant take lives
when we encounter battle royale
do we follow normal rules
or do specifically what the card says
 
But this is an FAQ or errata if you prefer. I agree the warewolf is in need of eratta.
bleh
 
its not in need of errata
you simply FOLLOW the end game card
which is non vague
and tells you exactly what to do to resolve the end of the game
why would you NOT follow the text on the ending card TO THE LETTER
the faq addresses normal game rules
 
no
it was printed after danse to address game rule
which it does
 
nowhere in the faq
does it errata the ending card
 
It address the reaper specifically and does not provide an exception for the ending.
 
correct
so since there is NO errata on the ending
 
no
 
the ending is taken at face value
which says you MUST send the reaper
to anyone, anywhere
 
FAQ's are made to address pressing issue. I would call this a pressing issue. In which it says that the reaper cannot enter inner region. Simple. If it was intended to it should have then clarified Danse. Which it had the opportune moment to do so.
 
the reaper cannot enter the inner region
or go to the crown of command
that is correct
 
We will not agree
 
however when on the crown of command, you encounter a magical special card called THE END GAME CARD
and the end game card says, you MUST
therefore, you do it.
 
The FAQ is after the ending card.
Its like magic
 
obviously, because the ending card was released after the grim reaper was added
if the faq came out BEFORE the ending card
then the grim reaper wouldnt exist
 
No
 
notice how the faq doesnt address danse macabre
 
Danse was a seperate ending
 
thats because it doesnt need to
I KNOW its bonus
 
that was released around the time of reaper
 
yes thats correct
 
The FAQ was realesd months later
 
i understand what you're saying 
 
even years later
 
it doesnt matter
 
I understand what you are saying and disagree
 
the ending card tells you exactly what to do
so you do it
 
So does the FAQ tells you what you cannot do.
 
the faq applies to normal game rules
 
no
it applies to cards too
 
the faq applies to all rules of the game
 
it even outlines several card in the faq
 
however on the end game card it tells you specifically, you MUST send it to anyone anywhere
there is nothing in the faq that says otherwise
so obviously you follow the text
MUST, and ANYWHERE is pretty self evident
 
This is circular and will not result in a changing of opinion.
because it is both of our opinions on how the rules interact.

 

---------------So what do you, the viewrs at home think



#3 Gigg

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:13 AM

So in short does the FAQ which was published after Danse Macabre was released apply to the ending? leading to the following two questions after the ending was revealed.

With the Ending Danse Macabre in effect:

1.     Can the Grim Reaper be sent back to the person on the crown of command if a 5 is rolled on the Grim Reaper chart?

2.     Can the person on the Crown of command send the Grim Reaper to another character in the inner region ?

Danse Macabre (2008):

Whenever a character rolls on the Grim Reapers Chart, he must subtract one from the result (to a minimum of 1).

If a character is on the Crown of Command and no other characters are present, he must send the Grim reaper to vist any Character in any Region.
If a character is on the Crown of Command and there is another character present, at the beginning of his turn he must attach the other character instead of sending the Grim Reaper to visit
 
Exerpt from offical FAQ on November 28 2011:
Q5: If a character rolls a “5” for the Grim Reaper, can he teleport to a different Region?
A: Yes. The Grim Reaper can cross Regions when teleporting. However, the Grim Reaper may never teleport to the Inner Region.
 
Grim Reaper (2008)

When the Grim Reaper lands on your character, you must roll 1 die:

  1. 'It is time.' Lose all lives, you are killed.
  2. 'I'm here for that one.' One of your Followers, determined at random, must be discarded. If you have no Followers, you lose 1 life instead.
  3. 'Dice with me!' Roll 2 dice for yourself and 2 dice for the Grim Reaper. If the Grim Reaper's result is higher, you lose 1 life. Otherwise, there is no effect.
  4. 'A game of chess?' Miss your next turn.
  5. 'There has been a mistake!' The Grim Reaper teleports to the character of your choice, who must immediately roll 1 die on this chart.
  6. 'I have plans for you.' You may choose to gain either 1 Strength, Craft, life, gold, Spell, or fate, or teleport to any other space in this Region as your next move.

 

Original Grim Reaper rules (2008)
The Grim Reaper will not cross the Portal of Power, as he is already present in the Inner Region.
 


#4 LordZoma

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:25 AM

My opinion: The information in the FAQ applies to the normal rules of the game.

Danse Macabre specifically states that you MUST send the reaper to ANY character in ANY region. The inner region IS a region.

A character on the Crown of Command would encounter the ending card and follow the text of the card specifically, which is a special card and endign cards MAY, CAN, and DO violate the normal rules of the game with their special effects. THe character on the crown could then send the reaper to any character in any region, including the inner region, as specifically stated on the card. However when a character in the inner region receives the 'there has been a mistake result' he cannot send the reaper back to the crown of command or a character in the inner region, because at this point he is abiding by the normal rules of the game and not following the special text on the ending card, while a character on the crown of command encountering the ending card on his turn would be.



#5 Nioreh

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:34 AM

Whoa….. tldr                                                             



#6 The_Warlock

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:19 AM

LordZoma said:

 

My opinion: The information in the FAQ applies to the normal rules of the game.

Danse Macabre specifically states that you MUST send the reaper to ANY character in ANY region. The inner region IS a region.

A character on the Crown of Command would encounter the ending card and follow the text of the card specifically, which is a special card and endign cards MAY, CAN, and DO violate the normal rules of the game with their special effects. THe character on the crown could then send the reaper to any character in any region, including the inner region, as specifically stated on the card. However when a character in the inner region receives the 'there has been a mistake result' he cannot send the reaper back to the crown of command or a character in the inner region, because at this point he is abiding by the normal rules of the game and not following the special text on the ending card, while a character on the crown of command encountering the ending card on his turn would be.

 

 

It might have been advisable to post a simple question, without throwing in a whole Messenger/chat thread which is barely understandable, because you can't distinguish the various voices speaking. Not that it matters too much though, as you summarized everything well.

IS there a problem with Danse Macabre and Grim Reaper movement in the Inner Region? So far as I understand the rule principles that we received from the base rulebook and their application to this bonus material, I don't see problems. But there IS a problem, because issues were clarified in bits and the whole picture was never officially put together. Still, the whole picture won't be acceptable for rules-lawyers around

I'm not officially entitled to give answers, but I'll jumpf in this discussion at my own risk.

Premises

Q: Do normal rules allow for Grim Reaper to be moved into the Inner Region?

Even though the Grim Reaper Rulesheet gave the rule in the form of flavour text "the Grim Reaper will not cross the Portal of Power, as he is already present in the Inner Region", it is clear that the intent was keeping him away from that Region entirely. Some things in games are limited, because with no limits things get out of control.

Basic mechanic of the Reaper is: when you roll a 1 for your move, you may move the Reaper by rolling 1 die at the end of your turn.

In the Inner Region, you don't roll a die for your move. With Dragon Tower, things get even more complicated because movement is increased by defeated Enemies and takes place at the end of the turn.

Q: Why should the Reaper figure not be allowed in the Inner Region?

1) How would you move the Reaper in the Inner Region? Will you move it like characters? Will you roll the die regardless of normal movement rules? Why should the Reaper break normal movement rules in the Inner Region while he doesn't in any other Region?

2) Characters in the Inner Region don't roll a die for movement and can't move the Reaper away from them. Is it fair that characters outside the Inner Region can move the Reaper to characters in the Inner Region, and not viceversa?

3) What if the Reaper comes to the Crown of Command? Does he stay on the space and automatically encounter characters every turn? Or every time a character rolls a 1 for his move? If he should move one space per turn and he may leave the Crown at will, could he be moved back and forth and land repeatedly on a character on the Crown? If he rolls the die, does he stop on the Crown and may not move further?

4) What if a character rolls a 6 on the Reaper chart in the Inner Region? May he teleport to the Crown?

5) In the Dragon Tower, does the Reaper move one space per turn, roll the die regardless of any movement rule, or does he draw Dragon cards and fight Enemiesreir?

Some players like Death to be an omnipotent being overriding all normal rules at leisure, but unfortunaly the Reaper in Talisman is moved by players, not by her own will.

As a general idea to limit game problems, the Grim Reaper should FOLLOW RULES.

Of course there's a house rule solution to all possible problems. If you bother to find it out, you'll be fine with your game.

I play with 100% Rules As Written, not because I like every rule, but to have minimum rule debate during play. The Reaper Rulesheet was written in a literary form, but I think it's quite clear in saying that Reaper in the Inner Region should not be allowed. Above there's a bunch of reasons, you evaluate if they're good or not.

Danse Macabre

Q: Does Danse Macabre override normal Grim Reaper movement rules (from Rulesheet and FAQ)?

There's a section in Talisman Base Rulebook that's called "Golden Rules". They should be called Silver, and sometimes Rusty Rules, as their interpretation is ambiguous for most players. Let's recall them:

Special Ability vs. Rules
In any instance where a special ability or effect is at a variance with the basic rules, the special ability or effect always overrides the rules.

According to this Golden Rule, Danse Macabre should actually apply above any standard game rule. But don't stop here and read on:

Can vs. Cannot
In any instance where a card’s effect indicates that a character cannot perform an action or use an ability (such as casting a Spell or using an Object), the character cannot do so. In other words, the forbidding effects of cards override other abilities and effects. For example, if a card indicates that no Weapons can be used when fighting a certain creature, the Warrior may not use any Weapons, despite his ability that allows him to use two Weapons at the same time.

I added emphasis to the "real" Golden rule, as the remaining part of the paragraph is a series of examples, not the general rule.

What's the rules-lawyer counter-argument here? That according to this paragraph, restrictions given on cards (and on cards only) always trump effects of other cards. So, applying the Special Ability vs. Rules concept, if a restriction is stated in the rules or FAQ, then it shall be ignored as a card that allows a variance should prevail over the rule.

Rules that forbid things are vital to games. If something is forbidden, it shall stay so, because there were good reasons to do it.

Can vs. Cannot rule is Golden, not Rusty, so it shall be applied as a general principle over all game components, with no need to make a thorough source screening every time. It doesn't work well if it was intended to be so, as players can't bear in mind if a rule was given on a sheet or a card. New cards and effects shall be designed remembering what has been forbidden in the past, or get around it in a clear way.

Danse Macabre is a bonus Alternative Ending and might contain oversights that nobody cared to clarify. I would say that you shouldn't read the Ending as allowing the Reaper in Inner Region. It obviously FORGOT TO DISALLOW this. The creator of this Ending probably thought that the given Rules were already preventing this, but they aren't, not literally. Unfortunately, you cannot allow the Reaper in the Inner Region without bringing the overall balance and gameplay out of control.

In absence of a complete and official clarification, choice is yours. No need to start arguments like the one you pasted above.



#7 malksm99

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 11:11 AM

Without getting into the technicalities of the argument coudn't you just have the player that rolls a 5 send the grim reaper to another player or the person on the crown of command space could just select another player to send death to , then if by some chance they all roll a 5 it goes back to original choice.



#8 LordZoma

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:16 PM

the Grim Reaper should absolutely be allowed to land on players in the inner region during the dance macabre ending the player who is on the crown of command has to sit there and wait until either people are dead or someone else reaches the crown. If its the dragon tower ending and you reach the crown and another player is in the dragon tower the player on the crown automatically loses if you can't send the Reaper to the player in the tower because the player in the tower can level forever until their strength is higher than the person on the crown. following the golden rule as you described warlock the card and its text takes precedence and allows the Reaper to go to the inner region even though normal rules would dictate that it cannot go there.

#9 The_Warlock

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 10:31 PM

LordZoma said:

the Grim Reaper should absolutely be allowed to land on players in the inner region during the dance macabre ending the player who is on the crown of command has to sit there and wait until either people are dead or someone else reaches the crown. If its the dragon tower ending and you reach the crown and another player is in the dragon tower the player on the crown automatically loses if you can't send the Reaper to the player in the tower because the player in the tower can level forever until their strength is higher than the person on the crown.

Disallowing Grim Reaper in the Inner Region includes disallowing characters to send the Reaper to the Character on the Crown, which is more than appropriate if you want him to be favoured somehow.

Moreover, the Danse Macabre has a section dedicated to more characters on the Crown of Command at the same time. Will it be possible if you could send the Reaper at least 5 times to a character ascending to the Crown? Not that much when you have 33,3% chance of getting killed every turn.

The Dragon Tower example is possible (even though the opponent won't level "forever"), but I won't recommend playing with Danse Macabre ending if you use Dragon Tower. Besides the fact that on the Dragon Tower top you should "Confront the Dragon King!", you can mix game components as you wish, using all expansions together in a colourful mess where you fight your way up to the top of a Dragon Tower to find that the Thieves' Guild was behind it. But if you like to mix everything without thinking about what you're doing, then you should be more relaxed when you're arguing about rules. Precision in rules applications requires proper game organisation from the players' side too.

LordZoma said:

following the golden rule as you described warlock the card and its text takes precedence and allows the Reaper to go to the inner region even though normal rules would dictate that it cannot go there.

The end result is this, the combination of Rules and card text allows what you say. But if you bothered reading my overly long post you might have seen that there are too many reasons why the Reaper shall not get in the Inner Region. It generates PROBLEMS.

It's the Danse Macabre Ending that's wrong, not the rest of the game. I'm no FFG employee or blind fanboy, I can say that without hesitation. Considering it's a Bonus Ending, the best way is to fix the Ending, not to add other FAQs and clarifications.



#10 LordZoma

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 02:29 AM

So in other words, according to the strictest interpretation of the rules, I am correct.

The Danse Macabre ending card allows the person on the crown of command to send the reaper to ANY character in ANY region, and if another player receives the 'There has been a mistake" result, they cannot send the reaper back to the person on the crown of command, as they are restricted by normal rules and are not specifically instructed to send the reaper to any character in any region.

 

 

Insofar as your personal opinion on the matter, I partially disagree. Obviously according to the normal rules, if a person could roll a '1' and send the reaper into the inner region, it would damage game balance. The person in the inner region or on the crown of command has already proven himself, and to be targeted or damaged by the reaper makes it too easy for a person in a much weaker position to influence the more adfvanced character.

 

However, when applied to the Danse Macabre, it is essential to follow the text of the card, otherwise the ending will often result in a stalemate.

 

Example: BOB reaches the crown of command with a strength of 50. He sends the reaper out over the course of a few turns, and kills all the characters but AMY who manages to make it into the dragon tower. AMY has a strength of 6 and a bunch of dragon scales. Even if AMY can make it to the crown of command, she will not be able to defeat BOB in PVP, so she advances through the dragon tower, then retreats, then advances, then retreats. By the time she is close to reaching the crown her strength is now 75. BOB needs to retreat now too! Otherwise he'll lose. So he retreats and runs circles in the dragon tower. This situation only occurs if the Danse Macabre is not able to be performed as specifically written on the card. Instead of the card poking at other players every turn in similar fashion to the command spell or the crown and sceptre ending, once two players enter the dragon tower region, the game is a DRAW unless players happen to get unlucky and die to bad draws in the tower, or if one of the players is a spell caster and he infinitely cycles his spells until he kills by spell.    Clearly in this example, creating any sort of 'house rule' to disallow the normal specifically stated function of danse macabre, breaks the game, and defeats the point of the ending.

 



#11 The_Warlock

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:57 AM

LordZoma said:

So in other words, according to the strictest interpretation of the rules, I am correct.

The Danse Macabre ending card allows the person on the crown of command to send the reaper to ANY character in ANY region, and if another player receives the 'There has been a mistake" result, they cannot send the reaper back to the person on the crown of command, as they are restricted by normal rules and are not specifically instructed to send the reaper to any character in any region.

Yes, your interpretation IS correct. It's not a strict interpretation, but the application of Rules As Written. I think that rules should have a different spirit and not lead to ambiguous situations like this; or even better, new game components can be a little bit less amazing and little bit less flawed.

LordZoma said:

Insofar as your personal opinion on the matter, I partially disagree. Obviously according to the normal rules, if a person could roll a '1' and send the reaper into the inner region, it would damage game balance. The person in the inner region or on the crown of command has already proven himself, and to be targeted or damaged by the reaper makes it too easy for a person in a much weaker position to influence the more adfvanced character.

Still, I was trying to point out that moving the Reaper in the Inner Region generates problems. If the character on the Crown sends him to a character in the Inner Region, then the Reaper is in the Inner Region. If another character outside the Region rolls a '1' for movement at this point, what happens then?

That's my point, nothing else.

LordZoma said:

However, when applied to the Danse Macabre, it is essential to follow the text of the card, otherwise the ending will often result in a stalemate.

This is possible with the Dragon Tower, but I don't think it would be possible with other endings, including standard Crown of Command. In normal game, a character needs to stay in other Regions to improve and is always vulnerable to the Reaper. If he can blitz to the Crown and kill the character that was controlling the Reaper before, that's part of normal game mechanics.



#12 Uvatha

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:16 AM

Grim can never enter.. Move to… Move in the inner region… The end.



#13 Bolithio

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:36 PM

Good God.

 

""It obviously FORGOT TO DISALLOW this..""

 

I have rule lawayers in my group (sometimes me). We play with 4-6 people every week, this game and others. One of the patterns I see is people using logic from other games to interpret another game. This can help explain some weird interpretations people come up with. Also, because there are so many different games, eventually, if you play a lot they start to blend together and you see all kinds of ways to question things (especially munchkin style games). Its not all bad – we should always be questioning our reality – but keep the arguments swift. And only argue about reasonable, actual problems. Warlock is right about golden rules and more so “the spirit” of the game”.

 

 



#14 Uvatha

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 05:03 PM

Hehe just realised "Danse Macabre" was a additional made card not from any set. Never play with it :0.



#15 Tiggurix

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:02 AM

I suggest you release this ranting monologue as a horror short story. It's ranting and maniacal enough that anyone from an outside perspective could easily enjoy it as a work of horror "fiction", with vague and horrible insinuations to a game of Death, a.k.a. "the Danse Macabre", much like Final Destination. It would certainly be a hit among the creepypasta community, I think. =P






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