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Snotling Invasion put on the restricted list URGENT!!!


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#1 wensdeil

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:35 PM

A CARD WRONG

Is very important to invasion in the list of restricted, because it is a very unbalanced card…

Played with ancient map has a high chance of burning an area immediately…

Combining this with a fast deck, the game ends in three shifts…

 

It is not nice, I win I lose, indifferent…
 
Put invasion in restricdet with trolls vomit is a way to balance the game …
 
Now the metagame is heavily influenced by invasion …
 
As a community, we ask that Snotling Invasion is put into restricted with strong cards like troll vomit or inserted in banned list alone.
 
 
Thank you for your attention
we hope for a speedy resolution.

 



#2 Kaine82

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:04 PM

It's a good card, but it doesn't need to be restricted. Put a unit on it. Orcs don't have a lot of ways to take it off.

 


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#3 Virgo

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:46 PM

No problem wensdeil.

I will look into it after I decide which other HE cards need to be restricted (Convocation of Eagles, Mage of Loec etc.)



#4 gr4ffi

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:17 PM

NO: I never heard of this in any way around my comunity and my explanations have already been posted in the other thread about faq 2.0. Maybe you could describe your problem with this particular orc deck in detail and then we might be able to help you beat the **** out of it. Cheers.



#5 aqui

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:21 AM

Hello people

The card Snotling Invasion has to be put in restricted as soon as possible. As now it's too hard.

Please

aqui

 



#6 Virgo

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:05 AM

Just no ]:->



#7 Hyperfox

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:30 AM

Card Board Gamers said:

It's a good card, but it doesn't need to be restricted. Put a unit on it. Orcs don't have a lot of ways to take it off.

Lobber Crew, Blood Dragon Knight, Smash 'Em!, Troll Vomit? No, really, we're sure that Orcs have no removals?

In Invasion, units have 1 (or 2) P and 2 (or 3) Hit Point on average. In 4 turns (if unit have 1 P) or 3 turns (if unit have 2 P), you can't remove a unit?

People, this Quest must become Unique.

 

Vamos!



#8 Virgo

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:58 AM

Single quest against an opponent with good draw achives nothing and Orcs don't have other cards to benefit from hand destruction. It's funny how people weren't posting formal petitons when Orc could win on 2 or 3 turn using infinity indirect damage loop, but are now about quest that can be ever considered broken only if you get 2 on 1 turn.



#9 HappyDD

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:57 AM

A similar thread is kicking around here somewhere about how Forest Dragon is an extremely powerful card. Sometimes cards seem strong and it just isn't true. The orcs can be a pain in the ass, they have a lot of weapons, but Snotling Invasion is not the best of those weapons. This doesn't help you at all, since you're probably seeing a ton of Snotling Invasion's being played and feeling sad, so here's one solution:

Play Orcs all the time, play War Boar, play Pillage/Burn it Down on the Snotling Invasions. Put high power orcs on the Snotling Invasions. Play developments in the zone with the Snotling Invasions.

That way, in a meta that's crazy about Snotling Invasion you have an answer. There are other answers since Snotling Invasion isn't actually that threatening.



#10 wensdeil

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:44 PM

 

Boys invasion can be contained… OK
Werner, wild boar + pillage, echoes of magic.
 
But there is a wrong card
 
An effect too powerful for a zero cost, and difficult to stop.
Some decks have no realistic ways to block this card if they are played 2 or 3.
You draw 7 cards with a malligan, the deck has 50 cards and you have 3 quests and three ancient map.
It is not difficult to start with 2 invasion.
If you start with three mathematics is that the opponent burn area.
We combine this with a rush orcs, 3 rounds and the game is over.
Deck very easy, we use it to teach you children to play, but they have a chance to win against anyone if they start with the right number of invasions in hand.
 
Is easy to see that invasion is a card unbalanced cost, effect and counter.
 
Hyperfox absolutely right!
 
If you do not want to put in restricted, let's make it Unique and the problem is solved …
Remains a strong card at no cost, but not more unbalanced the game.
 
They put on Unique Offert to Hekerti can do it with Invasion, the game would improve and that's it.
 
Virgo: You are a designer? or have close relationships with designers?
You wrote that you decide which cards to put in restricted …
 
In addition: (Maybe where you play the metagame is different but we have the HE are little used and in all others, do not understand why limit it?)
 
Goodbay.


#11 Virgo

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:58 PM

wensdeil said:

 

Virgo: You are a designer? or have close relationships with designers?

You wrote that you decide which cards to put in restricted …
 
In addition: (Maybe where you play the metagame is different but we have the HE are little used and in all others, do not understand why limit it?)

 

 

No, I'm not. I'm admin of polish forum.

If you mostly play orcs and orc rush decks on top of that you may come to the conclusion that: omg snotling invasion+spider riders is just OP. I've played games where I dropped 2 snotling invasions on turn 1-2 and still lost them. Or I only won because of them. Against HE once Mage of Loec comes out you are generally screwed. You can't trigger actions and only thing you can do is just rush flooding battlefield with units. If you only have to burn one zone (the first was destroyed by two early snotling invasions) you may succeed, otherwise it's almost impossible.

Do what HappyDD suggested. Play other races and you will find out that meta right now is almost perfect.



#12 Kaine82

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:08 PM

Amen.

 

</thread>


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#13 wensdeil

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:10 AM

 

I'm asking not to offend.
But if you're designer, how do you decide which cards to put in restricted?
 
I play all six races … and some neutral cards …
And my opponents play all races unless HE
 
I agree that at this time the game is very balanced.
 
But invisione not balanced.
 
And if you tell me that removing or changing one single card to unbalance the game against the orcs, confirm what I say, or that the card is too strong.
 
Mage LOEC nomalemente is strong but it is used only once, after turns as development …
And the high elves have no other cards to create a good structure …
They may have strong individual cards, but do not create a good deck.
 
The purpose of this topic is to inform the FFG that some players consider invasion a wrong card.
And it requires a change.
As was done with the Visit city haunted.
 
Goodbay


#14 Doc9

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:35 AM

wensdeil said:

 the high elves have no other cards to create a good structure …

They may have strong individual cards, but do not create a good deck.
 
 

 

HUH?!? Didn't Worlds come down to HE vs. HE? I know changes have been made since then…but to say that HE's don't have viable decks is a bit on the loony tunes side. No?



#15 gr4ffi

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:53 PM

Wensdeil, so far you have two persons on your side. Probably they are from around your area :) It has been argued with Orc removal effects: Nobody plays Smash 'Em!, Blood Dragon Knight is difficult for its cost and also counters with Mob o' Hutz and Lobber Crew is not targeting. Except for Troll Vomit it really is kind of difficult for Orc to safely remove a unit from Snotling Invasion.

It has been argued for restriction of Snotling Invasion: There have got to be 2+ cards on the restricted list in order to achieve some kind of balance. What other Orc card could be restricted? Somebody wished Troll Vomit on the list once, but it does not solve your personal problem wensdeil. I could still build a deck with 3x Invasions, 3x Spider Riders and 3x Ancient Map. So, maybe Spider Riders should be on the list or even Ancient Map aswell, but the first one would be too a big nerf for orc and the second one would be unfair for the other races. Conclusion: Restriction is not a real option. If this problem was a real thing (which it is not according to experienced players that have answered this thread…), making the card uniqe would be the right choice.

Why it should not be uniqe: Because such a deck, that has been described now multiple times, but has not been shown to us (deckbox link) a single time, would be absolutely 100% sure beatable and balanced. I have once tested a deck a couple of times, that enterily focused on the use of snotling invasion. It had Long Winter and also 3x Ancient Map in it, aswell as some rush components to support a real quick damage output. It did not work… Because, in fact… You will not believe what iam saying to you right now: There were Hands with no Snotling Invasion and no Ancient Map on it either, even after Mulligan. But also hands with 2 Invasions for a start got beat down some times. The deck had a normal win/loss ratio.

Dwarves for example (ok, it is the best example): They beat the hell out of rush and snotling invasion. Simply bulding up a strong economy and throwing out some early demolitions, they can quickly recover from troll vomit and other orcish control elements, come out on top and just overpower your forces. By throwing down additional developments and being able to put down units with 3 power on snotling invasions they can really be a pain in the ***. Dwarves have everything to care a **** for snotling invasion.

Want another example? Sure, here we go with dark elves: Rushing? No way… Temple of Spite will instantkill every 1hp unit and this way block your hand. Pleasure cults  will then go ahead and allow your units to rest one turn before starting an attack. A whole round of relaxing does not seem so bad at first, but within this one turn your battlefield units are undergoing an additional risk of getting murdered, abducted, raped, corrupted and sacrificed. So what else do Orcs have to counter Pleasure Cults? Do i have to play with War Boar and Pillage in order to get rid of a cost 1 quest by paying 5 with this combination? I could still attack with Rip dere 'Eads Off! but it is difficult to say if 2-3 attacks with one single unit will be sufficient. Chillwind is out there aswell as Sacrifice to Khaine and other crazy stuff. Seriously: If Orc would not have Snotling Invasion, they would probably do less then a **** against Dark Elves with fast pleasure cults. So this seems fair to me.

You always have to see such problems in the light of the whole meta. Don't think of a counter for a single card, but think of other strengths and weaknesses to use against it. Otherwise there would be a ton of imba cards. Some are just damn good.

Before i will give you my final answer on this, again: We can offer you to take a look on the Orc deck or the deck you want to beat it with (best both) and give some useful hints.

Restricted/Uniqe Snotling Invasion?

 

 



#16 wensdeil

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:40 PM

 

Doc9: 2.0 FAQ before had the deck stronger.
with the combination damage infinity, extremely fast.
Now are there other decks.
The only ones that can constrain the actions.
And good in recovering the units.
But it can not eliminate enemy units, nor the support.
A major limitation.
Combined with dwarves or humans can be a great addition, but just do not work well.
 
gr4ffi: Hyperfox know him, aqui no.
you misunderstand I do not have a problem with a specific deck, but only with invasion.
The example of the rush orc invasion wanted to show how it can be used to make a deck as children, really strong.
 
There is no need to put in other restricted cards over troll invasion and vomit.
It takes these two.
Removing toll vomit unit that I put on quests and much more difficult to remove.
 
Make it unique would make it right not excessive.
 
P.S.
Scrub is a very funny series.


#17 gr4ffi

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:21 PM

So, what do you want?

1) Do you think Snotling Invasion is too strong as a single card and building decks with it is too easy?

2) Or do you think a deck with Snotling Invasion, Ancient Map etc. is too strong?

If 1), let me tell you that orc deck building in general might be one of the more difficult things in this game, at least when it comes down to control decks. Let them have the simple way with rush decks and Snotling Invasion, there is nothing wrong with giving beginners some strong deck. Besides, there are many other simple but strong decks possible with the other races too. And there will be a gap among beginners and professionals still. With single cards being too strong… just search this forum and find tons of petitions and whines about too strong cards. Everyone has his favourites ;)

If 2)… well, just no! Such a deck is too focused on rush and also depends too much on having snotling invasion on the starting hand. And as already described, dwarves will deal with it just fine and i think dark elves too.



#18 slick

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 03:13 PM

Should post this illustrious deck list so we can see how imbay it just wins all games ty



#19 Terastimus

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 05:16 AM

plz post the deck list, i wanna crush my regionals, thx.



#20 Kaine82

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:37 AM

Here is an Odd/Even orc deck running Snottling Invasion that was the number that went undefeated before top 8. It was built by Adam Daulton and ran by Patrick Olmstead. It lost in the first round of top 8 to Adam with his Brayherd Chaos deck.

http://deckbox.org/sets/356027

Some of us were talking durring the match about the card and most that played against it ageed it should be unique or limited at the very least. I personally didn't go up aganst it, but after hearing a lot of the stories about how easy  and devistating it was to get 3 of them going at once (especially with the addition of ancient map), I think I lean toward it being limited now.


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