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Insubordination


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#1 Nearyn

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:09 AM

A killteam is deep behind enemy lines, on a planet completely controlled by the ruinous powers and traitor mechanicus, without backup and with a single objective.

The kill-team consist of:

An Ultramarine Tech-Marine Squad Leader

A Blood-drinker Assault Marine

An Imperial Fist Tactical Marine

A Space Wolves Tactical Marine

A Space Wolves Devastator Marine

and a Salamanders Apothecary

 

In a horrible fight against a chaos abomination the squad leader gets cut down, loses a leg and barely survives(burn fatepoint), but though he is stable, he takes exceedingly long to recover (because his player have been unable to join us for 2 sessions). As a result the rest have turned to the Imperial Fist Tactical Marine for leadership, while the Squad Leader recovers.

The situation:

We're in a hostile forge-city, trying to enter the inner forge, through a gigantic wall. While scouting, the assault marine gets spotted, and the cannon emplacements open fire, almost killing him. The Apothecary immediately runs to his assistance, while the Devastator takes up position in a building and begins taking out the cannon emplacements. Meanwhile the Tactical Marine fires up the engines of a stolen chimera, while he orders the Assault Marine to get into cover. The Apothecary treats the Assault Marine and they begin moving towards the Chimera. While this is going on the cannons change target, targeting the Devastator, who is the only squad-member with the range and firepower to reliably destroy the cannons before the kill-team gets cut to shreds. The Devastator gets hit hard, and the Tactical Marine orders him to fall back to the chimera, to seek heavier cover and recieve treatment for his wounds. He disobeys and continues to fire on the cannons. Meanwhile the Tactical Marine has driven the Chimera into a position where it has a shot at the cannons, and uses its top-mounted stormbolter to suppress the targets on the wall. He keeps ordering the Devastator to fall back, but to no avail. The Devastator then gets shot into critical, and his armor immediately compensates, injecting him with stimm, keeping him barely conscious. He then moves to heavier cover, but not to the Chimera, and the Apothecary instad has to move closer to the cannons, in order to get at him.

 

We had to stop there, but next gamesession, we can hopefully take out the last cannon without any casualties. Even so, as the player of the Imperial Fist Tactical Marine, who is the tempoary leader of the kill-team, what would you do about the Devastator, after the fight?

So far I've been the open-council kinda squad-leader, always asking the opinions of my brothers and only really giving direct orders when we're under fire. And that is the issue here. For all I know, the Ultramarine-player will be back next gamesession and hopefully, I can leave the responsibility to him from then on, but this happened while I was in command, and while I take (read: actively ask for) input when we're not under pressure, I expect my brothers to tighten their buttcheeks and respect mah authoritahh, while we're under fire.

What would you do? Presently I'm considering just berrating him for his actions and making it clear that the next time he decides to disobey orders, I have to view him as a liability and then he can go and do some landscaping at the extraction site, while the real marines handle the mission.

 

Input and your own suggestions appreciated.

-Nearyn



#2 Gantz the slaughterer

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:55 AM

Dear,

I'm a Space Wolf  Tac marine

try with:

"Good job Brother…next time take cover, we really need the firepower of your weapon to succeed in our mission"

:D :D :D

 

 



#3 Hrathen

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:21 AM

Command structures can be hard in role-playing games.  Some players don't like to be ordered arround even if their characters are more used to it.  I have seen more inter-player conflict over command structure than I have seen when one character kills another.

My advice is to be careful as you thrown you command authority arround.  Depending on your players it could cause conflict between real life friends not just imaginary space marine characters.  

That being said, I would like to point out that actual military command is much more subtle than sometimes we realize.  Nothing can irrode a commander's authority faster than giving orders that he knows are likely to be dissobeyed, and when he wields his authority like a club to get people to come into line.

The only real control that any commander has over the troops under him must literally be surrendered to him by those he commands.  Yes, there are penalties for insubordination, but they are not nearly as powerful of a motivater as showing good leadership.

Now secific to DW.  In a Deathwatch Kill Team you liteally have SM gathered from different chapters, basically from different cultures, they have come together for the good of the Empire and for the Deathwatch, but that does not mean that they instantly trust each other, or even understand how each other thinks.  Kill Teams also opperate much more independantly from larger military structures than othe units.  All of these factors can contribute to a looser command structure.

In this specific situation, you had a new commander (not the one, the Devistator was used to taking orders from), and he was being ordered to fall back.  I can totally see how a Marine might choose to dissobey orders to stay in the fight in this situation.

I would like to point out that none of what I hav written here should be taken as advice for or praise for what the devistator did.  It was advice for the Commander, and some things that I think he would do well to discover.

That being said, we role-play flawed characters.  If your character wants to chew out the Devistator up one side and down the other for dissobeying orders, it would definatly not be out of character for what is likely to accure in a Military situation.  


Putting an end to this distructive conflict and bringing order to the galaxy.

#4 Dar Sel'La

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:35 PM

I agree with the above post on several levels. I do have some specific issues though. For one, Space Wolves Devistators are some of the oldest of thier Great Companies, as command really doesnt trust heavy weapons to blood claws, so there would be some level of acknowladgement of good tactics and order. Secondly, a Space Marine, while he may disagree with an order, and may, in fact, disregard it once, would not do so again, espically if it came from the recogniced squad commander. Now there are always going to be exceptions to this rule, such as there being intense rivalries between the chapters, or a situation the commander is unaware of, but in general, a Space Marine would not lightly ignore a second, repeted order to do somthing without severe threat of incarceration or even summary execution.



#5 Zappiel

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:24 PM

remember also that the leader of the kill team is not in charge - he's merely there to break ties……the kill team is run by the team members, not by the team leader.  the team leader can call the shots, but he can't throw his authoritah around……



#6 crisaron

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:44 AM

Let them RP it, if it comes to shoating and threats give them a cohesion hit, if they pull out as a team give them a cohesion bonus.

 

Something like the choice in the face of the hods, etc.

 

If you don't use cohesion give them renow hit, a small one, explain that by saying the groop disorder is seen as a failure.






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