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Weapon Reloading and maneuvers


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#1 Lord Dynel

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:14 PM

A situation came up tonight that I think we figured out, but wanted to run it by you fine folks here to double check.

A player rolled a Despair on an attack and I ruled that he ran out of ammo.  I ruled that it would take one maneuver to retrieve the ammo from storage and one maneuver to load his weapon.  He told me that since he has extra reloads, it reduced this down to one maneuver.  The Beta book's wording does say somthing like that (on pg. 119, under the Extra Reloads/Pwer Packs description) but it sounds vague to me.  The rulebook in the Beginner Game states, on page 36, thatby "spending a maneuver, they may reload their weapons and get back in the fight."  

So, I am accepting defeat by figuring I was wrong in making the character use two maneuvers as it appears to say (one to pull the reload out of storage and another maneuver to actually reload).  What do you guys think?  One maneuver or two?



#2 GMSam

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 04:19 PM

Defeat? No. That would imply that you were competeing with the player. Don't sweat this thing brotha! we are all learning this awesome new games rules and intracacies. You were trying to translate the Dispare into a fun story element and you just happen to choose something that a PC had a talent to prevent. I can totally see this happening again in the future to many of us as we keep playing; how could you possiibly know every talents effect mechanically, especially as the PCs gain more talents. I recently was at a loss for narrating some extra threat and threw it out to the PCs. "what you guys think could have gone haywire in this scene? They had a blast coming up with the story themselves and were way harder on themselves than I would have been, So fun, I'm really lovin' the narrative dice-a breathe of fresh atr in a "you hit/you miss with your +1 sword" world. IMO.


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#3 jtrowell

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 09:50 PM

I am under the impression that having the "extra reloads" is not something that improve the reloading action, it's what's needed to do it.

 

Blasters are supposed to rarely get out of amno in a normal situation and to be easy to reload between fights, and extrat reloads take place, especially if you want to use a small pistol supposed to be easier to conceal, so you're not always supposed to have extra battery packs, that's what this equipement represent.

 

Without the extra reloads, your player would have been unable to use his blaster for the whole encounter (unless of course he borrow a reload or another blaster from a dead opponent or from a friend), having them is what allowed him to do the reload manoeuver.

 

If he carry his reload in somewhere accessible, like a belt, then using only one manoeuver seems appropriate.

If the reloads are in a backpack or somewhere similar, then the additionnal manoeuver to get it as you wanted to do seems fair.

Of course, openly carrying reloads on your person imply that you expect to see a lot of fighting and might mark you as someone to avoid so it might not always be a good idea depending on what the character is trying to do.

 

Carrying a small sidearm on your person because you work in a dangerous planet ? Can be expected from almost anybody.

Carrying a blaster rifle (or another heavy weapon) and/or reload packs on your belt ? If you try to pretend to be somethint else than a big game hunter or a bounty hunter, I expect people will find hard to believe you.

 

 

 

 


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#4 Lord Dynel

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:57 PM

Thanks guys, for the replies so far.  I'm eager for more opinions, but appreciated the ones I've gotten so far!

@GMSam: Yes, I made it sound confrontational between my players and I.  I didn't mean for that to be.  And I agree, that the narrative dice are fantastic.  It's a learning process for us all, right now, and I do understand ther'll be bumps on the way.

 

I guess my main concern was that I was reading that:

a) It's one maneuver to retreive an item, and;

b) It's one maneuver to reload.

From that, I extrapolated that it would take two maneuvers to retrieve the clip/power pack and to reload the weapon.  I got the above from page 129-130 of the Beta.  

jtrowell, I'm reading it the exact same way you are.  My player was, I think, reading it like you mentioned - the reload prevents an "out of ammo" result from a Despair, so that maneuver is not necessary.  I agree that an "out of ammo" result means that unless you have a reload on you, that weapon is worthless until you get one.  Having the reload on you, somewhere, doesn't reduce the amount of time needed to reload.

The great thing is, he waited until after the encounter to bring up his displeasure/disagreement with my ruling.  The bad thing is, he didn't wait until after the session.  complice

 



#5 eldath

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:44 AM

IMO you did fine, I believe that the sign of a good ref is someone who tries to convert die rolls and rules into a sensible but fun result but isn't afraid to take what the player(s) say and so long as it sounds right and is reasonable enough changes the result in line with the players comments. RPG's are about having fun and I have seen too many ref's who seem to think that it is them versus the players.

With regard to this specific situation, as jtrowell states, you cannot reload in a combat situation without the purchased extra reloads. However, if you have the reloads, then you may reload for one maneuver only, I do not believe that you are required to spend any time retrieve the ammo. Remember that with one maneuver you can move from long to medium range so pulling out a power pack and slotting it in is no biggy. That said, if you believe that a maneuver should be used to get the pack ready first, you are the ref. Just so long as you state clearly to the players at the start of the session that you are houseruling it that way.

E

Lord Dynel said:

A situation came up tonight that I think we figured out, but wanted to run it by you fine folks here to double check.

A player rolled a Despair on an attack and I ruled that he ran out of ammo.  I ruled that it would take one maneuver to retrieve the ammo from storage and one maneuver to load his weapon.  He told me that since he has extra reloads, it reduced this down to one maneuver.  The Beta book's wording does say somthing like that (on pg. 119, under the Extra Reloads/Pwer Packs description) but it sounds vague to me.  The rulebook in the Beginner Game states, on page 36, thatby "spending a maneuver, they may reload their weapons and get back in the fight."  

So, I am accepting defeat by figuring I was wrong in making the character use two maneuvers as it appears to say (one to pull the reload out of storage and another maneuver to actually reload).  What do you guys think?  One maneuver or two?



#6 LethalDose

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:24 AM

I just read through the equipment and combat sections to confirm, and I think I disagree with the 2-maneuver interpretation.

The Extra reloads/power packs item (page 119) states:

"Extra reloads allow characters to ignore an "out of ammo" resulting from a [Despair] gnereated during a ranged attack.  By spending a maneuver they may reload their weapons."

So, it seems to me that its just a single maneuver to go from out of ammo to reloaded.

Also, the load weapon maneuver (pg 130) states that reloading requires the ammo to be "at hand", so I think someone who is competent enough to fire a weapon in combat could be assumed to also make ammunition "at hand" in case their weapon goes dry.  If there's doubt about that, you could always call for a Vigilance check to determine if the character had the foresight put the ammo in an accessible place (on their gunbelt), or somewhere less convenient (the bottom of their pack).  Hell, roll ANOTHER despair, and they left it back on the ship.  Hilarity ensues.

Anyway, that's my interpretation of the rules.  Not saying that the 2-maneuver interpretation is wrong, just not how I run it at my table.

-WJL


"All models are wrong, but some models are useful."  - George E. P. Box


#7 gribble

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:22 PM

Lord Dynel said:

I guess my main concern was that I was reading that:

a) It's one maneuver to retreive an item, and;

b) It's one maneuver to reload.

From that, I extrapolated that it would take two maneuvers to retrieve the clip/power pack and to reload the weapon.  I got the above from page 129-130 of the Beta.  

I agree with this interpretation, unless the ammo is in hand or stored somewhere easily accessible (like a bandolier).


Star Wars Edge of the Empire (Beta test) resources:

 





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