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Tallon Roll, Force Rejuvenation, Trust your feelings + Old Ben Spirit question


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#1 Osiris

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:14 AM

Evening People. Probably some ridiculously simple questions to answer, but I would appreciate your expert clarification.

 

Tallon Roll, Force Rejuvenation and Trust your feelings - is there anything prohibiting me from using these in an attack to allow my character/fighter to attack a 2nd time against the same objective? I can't seem to see any reason why I couldn't? They just seem quite strong in that case and I'm wondering if I have missed anything?

 

Old Ben's spirit scenario - I played a game the other night where I had 2 Defence protocol active during my turn and my opponent had a jedi in hiding enhanced with an old ben's spirit.. I targeted the Jedi with both of the protocols (reducing my reserve value accordingly). I believed the jedi would die as the first protocol would resolve, removing the old ben spirit and then the second one would kill the Jedi.

My opponent objected and stated that both should be applied at once (like blaster icons on a character). I believe I was correct. Was I?

 

If any of you have the time to explain the timing of the second question (using refs if possible) it would be very much appreicated.

 

Thanks guys!



#2 BD Flory

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:08 PM

re: focus removers. Yes, these effects allow you to attack a second (or more!) time during an engagement if you wish.

re: your other question.

Defense Protocol's ability is a Reaction: to the start of your draw phase, so it functions thusly, step by step.

Your draw phase begins.

The active player (you) triggers a Defense Protocol Reaction.

Beginning with the active player, each player may play Interrupts to Defense Protocol before it inflicts damage. This would be something like Lightsaber Deflection.

Defense Protocol resolves, inflicting 1 point of damage and reducing your reserve.

Next, beginning with the active player, each player may play Reactions to Defense Protocol's damage.

Assuming there are none, this is when the Jedi in Hiding would die from the first defense protocol, so now we have a new windows for interrupts (before death). NOW is when your opponent would have to trigger Old Ben's Spirit.

Old Ben's Spirit gets discarded, and the damage is removed.

You've completed the sequence of interrupt and reaction windows that follow the first Defense Protocol, so you return to the trigger, which is after the draw phase begins.

If he wishes, your opponent may react to the beginning of your draw phase before you can trigger your other Defense Protocol, but otherwise, you're free to trigger another reaction from a different card, such as your second defense protocol.

As this is a new reaction, you repeat the steps above, except this time, there's no Old Ben's Spirit to save the Jedi in Hiding, and he dies.

For details on all this stuff, see the core rules (page 24, especially "Resolve each Reaction completely before the next is executed.") and the detailed timing rules in the FAQ (pages 4 and 5, especially, "Reaction opportunities for that triggering condition pass back and forth between players in this manner until both players have passed consecutively.")



#3 BD Flory

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:55 PM

BD Flory said:

re: focus removers. Yes, these effects allow you to attack a second (or more!) time during an engagement if you wish.

re: your other question.

Defense Protocol's ability is a Reaction: to the start of your draw phase, so it functions thusly, step by step.

Your draw phase begins.

The active player (you) triggers a Defense Protocol Reaction.

Beginning with the active player, each player may play Interrupts to Defense Protocol before it inflicts damage. This would be something like Lightsaber Deflection.

Defense Protocol resolves, inflicting 1 point of damage and reducing your reserve.

Next, beginning with the active player, each player may play Reactions to Defense Protocol's damage.

Assuming there are none, this is when the Jedi in Hiding would die from the first defense protocol, so now we have a new windows for interrupts (before death). NOW is when your opponent would have to trigger Old Ben's Spirit.

Old Ben's Spirit gets discarded, and the damage is removed.

You've completed the sequence of interrupt and reaction windows that follow the first Defense Protocol, so you return to the trigger, which is after the draw phase begins.

If he wishes, your opponent may react to the beginning of your draw phase before you can trigger your other Defense Protocol, but otherwise, you're free to trigger another reaction from a different card, such as your second defense protocol.

As this is a new reaction, you repeat the steps above, except this time, there's no Old Ben's Spirit to save the Jedi in Hiding, and he dies.

For details on all this stuff, see the core rules (page 24, especially "Resolve each Reaction completely before the next is executed.") and the detailed timing rules in the FAQ (pages 4 and 5, especially, "Reaction opportunities for that triggering condition pass back and forth between players in this manner until both players have passed consecutively.")

 

As a minor clarification, reducing your reserve is part of the cost of using defense protocol and actually happens slightly before you choose your target and resolve the effect by inflicting damage. Doesn't make a difference to your question, but I thought I'd mention it. Among other things, it means that if the reaction is canceled altogether, you still pay the cost -- your reserve remains reduced.



#4 just Logan

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:06 AM

Clarification on wording, if you can remove all focus tokens from a unit during an engagement that unit can and must strike again. I know that is what you meant but attack and strike are very different. Attack and engage are the same thing as far as I can tell  



#5 ScottieATF

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:54 AM

BD Flory said:

re: focus removers. Yes, these effects allow you to attack a second (or more!) time during an engagement if you wish.

re: your other question.

Defense Protocol's ability is a Reaction: to the start of your draw phase, so it functions thusly, step by step.

Your draw phase begins.

The active player (you) triggers a Defense Protocol Reaction.

Beginning with the active player, each player may play Interrupts to Defense Protocol before it inflicts damage. This would be something like Lightsaber Deflection.

Defense Protocol resolves, inflicting 1 point of damage and reducing your reserve.

Next, beginning with the active player, each player may play Reactions to Defense Protocol's damage.

Assuming there are none, this is when the Jedi in Hiding would die from the first defense protocol, so now we have a new windows for interrupts (before death). NOW is when your opponent would have to trigger Old Ben's Spirit.

Old Ben's Spirit gets discarded, and the damage is removed.

You've completed the sequence of interrupt and reaction windows that follow the first Defense Protocol, so you return to the trigger, which is after the draw phase begins.

If he wishes, your opponent may react to the beginning of your draw phase before you can trigger your other Defense Protocol, but otherwise, you're free to trigger another reaction from a different card, such as your second defense protocol.

As this is a new reaction, you repeat the steps above, except this time, there's no Old Ben's Spirit to save the Jedi in Hiding, and he dies.

For details on all this stuff, see the core rules (page 24, especially "Resolve each Reaction completely before the next is executed.") and the detailed timing rules in the FAQ (pages 4 and 5, especially, "Reaction opportunities for that triggering condition pass back and forth between players in this manner until both players have passed consecutively.")

 

Only thing wrong here is the underlined.  If enough damage is dealt to kill a unit, that  (thier destruction) happens before you have a chance to react to damaging.  The FAQ goes over this in relation to Boba's ability.






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