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Beating Jedi Control


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#1 SWLCG_CO

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:33 PM

So I played some games today against Jedi Control w/Han and got crushed pretty badly in about half my games. In the games I won, I was one turn ahead (i.e. if the LS had another turn they would have won those as well).

The question is, what is fast / consistent enough to get ahead of the Jedi control engine? I mean, at one point in one game, Yoda had 3 enhancements on him (lightsabers included) and just could not be stopped.

If there is not a deck that beats it, what slows it down? My thoughts are that Sith Control basically draws games against it, but with threepio and Counterstroke the DS events seem to have limited usefullness.

Help please …



#2 JMCB

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:53 PM

 

The trick against Yoda is to win the edge battle. =P

Seriously, Sith control I would say is about 50/50 toss up between them and the jedi, though your odds go up drastically if you have Council of the Siths / Recon Mission out. If you don't, Fall of the Jedi at least lets you filter to your more powerful cards, which you can play or edge away. Also, if you have Vader in play it drastically helps. Heart of the Empire set, while most people don't like the objective, can really help with Force Stasis and the Coruscant Defense Fleet can beat up Jedi pretty well if you win the edge even if they have a Guardian out. Icetrompers aren't bad at doing 1-2 damage. Luke and Old Ben are trickier, so you just have to go in with multiple defenders and all the tricks in the book.

If Counter-Stroke and Lightsaber Deflection are problems for you, you can run Lord Vader's Command which can increase their costs and you get Imperial Suppression to mess them up. I personally wouldn't worry about these as much because you can usually tell when they are coming and play around them (don't attack and control the force, or if you're defending just try to win the edge battle to minimize damage). If you're worried about enhancements, splash for Take Them Prisoner so you can run Tear this Ship Apart, which also has the great card Detained which can get around Old Ben. Or if you wanted to go that route with capturing, Boba Fett can also bypass Old Ben or capture guardians.

Of course, the best objective set against the Jedi is Cruel Interrogations, as the multiple non-edge dependent tactic icons on the droids really help out, not to mention the fact you get Interrogation, which is a great catch-all answer that can really mess with the opponent's tempo.

Hope that can help a little, or at least put things in a little better of a perspective.

 


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#3 Rogue 4

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

The TIE swarm deck is really good and fast against it. Depends on the build, but I have seen several versions knock Jedi/Han around


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#4 TGO

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:19 PM

I'm thinking Sith control needs to adapt and start playing heart of the empire and the detained pod. Let them over extend with Yoda and enhancements and then play disturbance or detain Yoda and watch the enhancement get discarded. 



#5 JMCB

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:51 PM

Problem with that is you would have to play mainly Empire as you cannot run it as the Navy Affiliation because of Heart of the Empire. Though there's nothing stopping a player from running Take them Prisoner as one of the last sets in a standard sith control deck.


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#6 Crouton

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:06 PM

A few random thoughts for playing against Jedi:

1. Play Sith. Navy is good with only the core set, but Sith is better. If you have Desolation of Hoth, then ignore this comment. 

2. Win the force or at least make him fight for it. The Jedi deck, though powerful, is a slow deck and isn't packed with a lot of blast icons. If the Sith can put a lot of pressure on the force struggle and make the dial click up 2 every turn, it'll be a tough game for Jedi.

3. Take full advantage of Vader's ability. It's easy to get caught up in the moment and forget to trigger it. But it's great and you don't have to commit him to do anything. Problems with C-3PO? Force choke some one else and use Vader's ability on C-3pO.

4.  Win edge battles to neutralize their big guys. I know it sounds harder than it is, but you have the advantages on your side. When defending with Sith, you usually have some card advantage over LS, you have cards with a lot of force icons, and Twist of Fates naturally work better when defending anyway. Strike first, either killing their big guys or locking them down with focus tokens.

5. Even if you lose an Edge battle, you'll have depleted his hand down to one or none. On your turn, attack with Palpatine and get those focus tokens on their big guys to lock them down.

 

 

 



#7 MasterJediAdam

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:25 PM

I would be interested in seeing a list that can use Heart successfully. I also think it would be especially nice to see something combining navy and Sith control.


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#8 JMCB

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:44 PM

Affiliation:
1 x Sith

Objectives:
2 x Counsel of the Sith
1 x Cruel Interrogations
1 x Reconnaissance Mission
2 x Fall of the Jedi
2 x The Emperor's Web
2 x The Heart of the Empire
 

This is the list I've been running with 'The Heart of the Empire'. Three objectives that draw you cards and two that filter are amazing at ensuring you get good cards all the time. 'Force Stasis' is amazing at slowing the opponent down, and 'There is No Escape' is really good against a board set up with 'Old Ben's Spirit', main characters, and 'Guardian of Peace'. I've ran two Cruel Interrogations over the solo 'Reconnaissance Mission' in the past, and while I love having two 'Interrogation's in the deck, I'd rather have the extra objective that draws cards and the extra 'Twist of Fate', as it helps the deck stay consistant.

This is another deck I've been playing with, which is VERY fast:

Affiliation:
1x Sith

Objectives:
2 x Counsel of the Sith
1 x Death and Despayre
1 x Corporate Exploitation
2 x The Emperor's Web
2 x Lord Vader's Command
2 x Imperial Command

This deck is sick in how fast it can destroy objectives (seen a few turn 3 wins with the dark side with this. You can also play it hard defense until you have an Orbital Bombardment and/or Darth Vader out.

 


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#9 Budgernaut

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 11:22 PM

I got toasted by the same sorts of decks tonight. It was disheartening. I was mostly playing to try out some new decks and got squashed. For the record, playing a deck full of creatures is thematically fun, but I didn't feel as in control as with the core Sith control decks. I usually run the one JMCB mentioned first, except I have one Heart of the Empire and 2 Cruel Interrogations.


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#10 SWLCG_CO

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:06 AM

JMCB said:

Affiliation:
1 x Sith

Objectives:
2 x Counsel of the Sith
1 x Cruel Interrogations
1 x Reconnaissance Mission
2 x Fall of the Jedi
2 x The Emperor's Web
2 x The Heart of the Empire
 

This is the list I've been running with 'The Heart of the Empire'. Three objectives that draw you cards and two that filter are amazing at ensuring you get good cards all the time. 'Force Stasis' is amazing at slowing the opponent down, and 'There is No Escape' is really good against a board set up with 'Old Ben's Spirit', main characters, and 'Guardian of Peace'. I've ran two Cruel Interrogations over the solo 'Reconnaissance Mission' in the past, and while I love having two 'Interrogation's in the deck, I'd rather have the extra objective that draws cards and the extra 'Twist of Fate', as it helps the deck stay consistant.

 

Budgernaut said:

I got toasted by the same sorts of decks tonight. It was disheartening. I was mostly playing to try out some new decks and got squashed. For the record, playing a deck full of creatures is thematically fun, but I didn't feel as in control as with the core Sith control decks. I usually run the one JMCB mentioned first, except I have one Heart of the Empire and 2 Cruel Interrogations.

Gents

Thanks for the replies. I am also interested in seeing how Heart of the Empire works. I don't have so many games under my belt, but the follow-up question remains, if this deck can beat control, can it also beat Rebel Assault / Vehicle Swarm?



#11 Budgernaut

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:11 AM

It can be very difficult, in my experience. I've only faced a Rebel vehicle deck once with my Sith control deck. I think my opponent could have won except that he kept playing the few character units that appeared in his deck. After killing several oft them with Force Choke and using Vader's reaction, he still played a Rookie Pilot, allowing me to choke the pilot and use Vader's reaction to destroy a Y-wing. I think a person who plays vehicles against Sith control and avoids cahracter units can give a Sith control deck a run for its money. Neither side is guaranteed an easy win -- it will be an up-hil battle for both sides -- but vehicles can avoid the Force Choke/Vader combo that usually shines in Sith control decks.


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#12 MasterJediAdam

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 04:12 PM

Agreed on an initial assessment that this style of DS deck can have problems with Rebel Assault decks. Heaven forbid you get both Heart of the Empire objectives in your starting objective choice (you have a 13% chance of it happening in any given game).

I goldfished a few games today with the HotE deck v a Jedi & spies deck, and while it did well, if it got behind the game got REAL long. I totally learned something about it. I lost so many edge battles that the Objective damage just wasn't there. It made it difficult for the LS to consistently damage objectives.

So, to the OP, I think that as a general strategy against LS control decks, winning the Edge is key. Obviously you need to have characters on the table to do that …


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#13 ScottieATF

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:49 PM

TGO said:

I'm thinking Sith control needs to adapt and start playing heart of the empire and the detained pod. Let them over extend with Yoda and enhancements and then play disturbance or detain Yoda and watch the enhancement get discarded. 

Makes them weaker against RA though.






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