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Can heroes really spend fatigue to gain movement points without declaring a move action?


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#1 Zogwort

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:26 AM

Hey all, 

I don't remember if I heard it here, a different message board, or from someone IRL who played the game more than me, but somehow I became under the impression recently that heroes can spend their fatigue to gain movement points without declaring a move action.

So, I informed the players in my group last night that they can do this and well… lets just say that I got worked by the heroes big time lol. They were all basically spending their fatigue to "slide" into strategically advantagious spaces and getting their 2 normal actions on the same turn and I as the OP couldn't really respond with my monsters at all until they were pretty beat up before they could even do anything. I even had red Shadow Dragon only get 1 attack off before being killed in this way.

So my question for you all is this true? From what I've read in the rulebook, you declare a move action in order to be able to recieve movement points, and  then you can spend fatigue to gain extra movement points. I do not see anything in the book saying you can fatigue can be spent to get movement points when a movement action is declared. I also did not see anything in the FAQ that did not confirm this. In fact, the only thing that I can find in the FAQ that even alludes to my question is this (pasted below), which specifically talks about spending fatigue for extra movement points within the move action.

 

"Q: Can a figure interrupt its move action to perform another move action, 
and if so, how are the spaces moved through during the first and second move 
action differentiated (and what happens if a card instructs you to “end your 
move action”)? How do the players differentiate between spaces that were 
moved through due to an action and spaces that were moved through due to 
suffering fatigue?
A: When a figure performs a move action, that figure receives a number 
of movement points equal to his Speed. A figure can interrupt its move 
action to perform an additional move action, which gives that figure 
additional movement points. There is no need to differentiate the two 
move actions because they are both move actions. If a card instructs you 
to end your move action and that figure performed two move actions, 
then both actions end and that figure loses all unspent movement points. 
However, if a hero player wishes to suffer fatigue to gain movement 
points in the middle of a move action, he must declare exactly when he is 
suffering the fatigue within the move action and which spaces he moves 
into with those additional movement points."
 
Please, any clarification is highly appreciated! It really seemsed that all my monsters died way to easily due to us playing the way we did.


#2 Husker949

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:47 AM

It is entirely legal for a hero to spend his/her fatigue as movement points. What happens is you have a movement point pool, it starts out with 0 points in it until you declare a move action to add yout speed value worth of points into that pool. You can use a fatigue point to add a point to the movement point pool as well. You do not have to take an action to use any points in your movement point pool; however, so spending those fatigue points allows the hero to gain that amount of movement to use. I use that tactic quite often with the geomancer and High Mage Quellion. His heroic feat is that he doubles his stamina, up to an 8 from a 4. He may then use all of the points up and regains them at the end of the round. The 8 point stamina score is only there for the one turn, but when coupled with fatigue potions it can be a really dangerous combination. You fatigue move your 8 points, pop a stamina potion, fatigue move another 7, summon a stone, attack, activate your stone. You effectively get two attacks, moved 15 spaces, and now have an empty fatigue pool to spend points again. I started the Cardinal's Plight quest part 2 with 2 stamina potions, heroic feat, stamina move to the farthest door (using a potion on the way) open the door action 1, search action 2, take the key, fatigue move to the cardinal's door, use the last stamina potion to finish the movement. Second hero turn the cardinal was out of the room and on his way out of the encounter. Almost instant hero victory.



#3 Dam

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:07 AM

"A hero player is not required to perform a move action in order to suffer fatigue to move." (p. 8)

Hell, part of the sentence is even bolded in the rulebook…

As far as Husker's Quellen trick goes, two words (especially since this is E2 so a smart OL should have collected his share of cards in E1): Web Trap. His Might 1 has him Immobilized every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Not to mention Pit Trap to boot.

Lair of the Wyrm adds the Punisher OL cards, of which No Rest For The Wicked is a perfect counter for fatigue-moving heroes, each time a hero spends fatigue, OL can move a monster one space reir .


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#4 Zogwort

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:32 AM

Woops! Yeah apparently I missed the part in the rulebook IN BOLD PRINT that stated exactly what I was wondering lol! I guess that means I should finish my coffee before attempting to look up things in rulebooks for now on :)

Husker949, in regards to your tactic, isn't using the Stam potions an action? If so, it sounds like you may giving yourself more actions than you should during a turn, no?

Also, how did you deal with any of the open group monsters that appear on the other side of each door as you were searching or the key to rescue Koth?



#5 Dam

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:58 AM

Zogwort said:

Husker949, in regards to your tactic, isn't using the Stam potions an action? If so, it sounds like you may giving yourself more actions than you should during a turn, no?

Also, how did you deal with any of the open group monsters that appear on the other side of each door as you were searching or the key to rescue Koth?

No, Stam potion doesn't take an action to use, Health Potion does. And yes, to me evil OL eye, seems like the OL in question wasn't placing his monsters into proper blocking positions. Quellen + Stone's two attacks should not be able to clear a path to the Search token and with Quellen separated (BTW, the path out of the Chapel wasn't blocked by the first open group?) from the rest, he's dead meat.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#6 Steve-O

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:10 PM

Zogwort said:

I as the OP couldn't really respond with my monsters at all until they were pretty beat up before they could even do anything. I even had red Shadow Dragon only get 1 attack off before being killed in this way.

In response to this point, your monsters are by and large expendable resources.  You've no doubt heard hero players complaining about how difficult it can be kill to certain monsters only to have the OL reinforce them again on his turn.  There's a reason for this.  Your monsters are not intended to go toe to toe with a well-equipped and well-played party.  They are intended to be speed bumps.  Use them as such and focus on completing your OL objectives as efficiently as possible, and you will see how the OL can stand up to heroes who know how to use fatigue properly.



#7 Husker949

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:14 AM

My OL wasn't the brightest in the batch, and I was able to, without attacking, move all the way down the main hall, open the door that had the token next to it, then run all the way back to Koth's door. There were no stones(at that point) and my team cleaned house with the first group at the enterance. The OL realized that it was a bad idea to group the monsters with me because of my blast attack clearing the whole group in one attack, so he placed them in the corners so that it would spread them out more. I admit, it was entirely luck of the draw and timing, but we ignored the first hidden group, cleared the Flesh Moulders he had in the enterance and then just gummed up the hallway so that the OL units couldn't do anything. It was a hundred to one shot that we won it when we did, and after the OL saw that, he will never let it happen again. It is also just proof that every game has it's own flaws that can easily be exploited by either side. if I wanted to I could have moved him through the entire Shadow Rune encounter with his ability and two move actions alone. If I had two stamina potions it would have been a quick victory for the heros. Again, this is speculation and really abusing the system for what it is.






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