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A Defense of Crypsis


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#1 Brigaldio

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:26 PM

Crypsis gets a lot of hate in the runner world.  A lot of times, the objection is "it's too expensive!"  There is some truth to that claim.  On average, Crypsis will cost you a few more credits to break the ice you encounter.  (See this useful post).  Added to that, you have to spend a click in order to break a piece of ice without losing Crypsis permanently.  Depending on the current state of your economy, this equates to 1-4 lost credits for that turn.

What Crypsis lacks in economy, it more than makes up for in utility.  Imagine this situation: the game has just begun.  The corp plays a face-down card in a remote server, lays a piece of ice on top of it, and takes a credit.  Now what?  If you run the server, and the corp rezzes an Enigma, and all you have on hand is a Corroder…  You're done.  The corp is scoring an agenda and there's jack all you can do about it.

Crypsis fills the holes that your other icebreakers leave behind.  As long as you have the credits, you're in.  No questions asked.  Once you've played crypsis and another relevant icebreaker, you can pretty much stack your resources and call it a day.  Without Crypsis, you're going to be spending time drawing cards and assembling the perfect rig before making a dent in the corp's ice.

Depending on your opponent, running blind into enemy ice runs the gamut between "not a good idea" and "a game endingingly bad idea."  Crypsis softens this blow.  As long as you have a decent credit cushion, you can investigate the outermost ice, then jack out if things look dicey.  You have the comfort of knowing that no matter what the corp throws at you, you can handle it.  No other icebreaker (besides Wyrm, which is even more expensive, outside some exotic combos) can provide that safety.

Any given runner deck should be stressing resources first.  Without credits, you can't install, can't break ice, and can't ditch tags.  Runners are much more dependent on credits than the corporation, which can get away with a minimal economy if it can intimidate the runner into not making a run.  For the most part, rezzing ice is a one time affair, while breaking that ice is something a runner might do 2-3 times.  All that said, you should have enough resources to fund Crypsis.  You should think of Crypsis as your baseline icebreaker.  Anything less expensive than that is just gravy.

Crypsis is especially useful to Anarchs and runners splashing Djinn - Crypsis also happens to be a virus, which means that Noise can use him to mill a card, and Djinn can tutor for him (for those not into magic: the gathering lingo, "splashing" means to include a card outside the type that you might ordinarily take (in this case, to use influence to purchase a card from outside your faction), "mill" means "to put a card from your deck into your discard," and "tutor" means "to search your deck for a card and put it in your hand").

Crypsis is just good.  He's generally useful like having extra credits is useful.  You don't know when you'll need him, but he's good to have around, just in case.  And if you finally do assemble the perfect rig, with the most efficient breakers?  Just get rid of him, or pawn him to Aesop.  Crypsis is one of the foundation cards for successful running.


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#2 Messenger

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 05:51 PM

I recently experimented with a Crypsis-based Criminal deck. The plan was to mix Crims' ICE evasion and speed with Crypsis' utility. I would use Crim cards and abilities to get around ICE and thus would use Crypsis minimally. On that point, Crypsis was supposed to handle any ICE in my way. To support Crypsis and lower its installation and operation costs, I borrowed heavily from the Anarch's virus-supporting cards- namely Cyberfeeder, Deja Vu and Grimoire- to make it.

It didn't work. Crypsis' needs negated whatever speed the Crim cards provided. The Cyberfeeders helped install and pay for its abilities but they only do so much. One reality is that if you're installing a Crypsis using Cyberfeeders, you'll still be in want of creds to run and will have to wait for you next turn to do so. Grimoire and installing a second or even 3rd Crypsis to get around having to "load" it before running actually came out to same as having only one Crypsis in play and loading it. Fearlessly sacrificing Crypsis to get it back using Deja Vu was similarly a waste of clicks and cards. What space I saved in card slots by just using Crypsis and no other icebreakers I had to use on Crypsis' support cards.

When I made that deck, I was convinced that Crypsis was actually a diamond in the rough. I saw the same things you did: the utility, the saved space in cards, the saved memory usage. I even looked up in these forums the chart that computed how much you spent on each icebreaker to break ICE, and Crypsis was #2 most efficient in most cases.

It's just that the reality is so different from the theory. This is a lesson I've learned over and over in card games, and now I've experienced it in Android: Netrunner.

To be fair, I was playing a Crim deck. I don't know how it'll run in an Anarch deck. For the most part, I now understand the hate against Crypsis. I don't think it's undeserving. At best, you could give it a try in a properly virus-loving Anarch deck, see how it goes, and report it here, complete with deck list, results and observations.



#3 Brigaldio

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:14 PM

I'm running it in a Whizzard Anarch deck that's not built to abuse viruses.  I have two Cyberfeeders, three Parasites, two Datasuckers and an Ice Carver to make Crypsis "cheaper," so 1 out fo 5 cards in my deck support Crypsis.  The other ice breakers I'm running in that deck are Zu 13 Keymaster, Corroder, and Mimic - two of those have exactly the same costs to improve/ break as Crypsis, with a slightly higher base strength.  Crypsis fills in early game needs and can end up serving as my sentry breaker.

I've also seen Crypsis run in Shaper decks, which can give it strength boosts to reduce its cost to use.  Maybe it's different as a criminal.  I haven't played criminal decks very much, but given the economy that criminal decks can set up, I can't imagine that you'd end up not having enough credits to fund Crypsis.


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#4 Messenger

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:49 AM

The key here is that you've got other icebreakers in your deck besides Crypsis. You don't really rely on it to do the bulk of your 'breaking; you only use it when you have no other particular 'breakers that you currently need. It's different when you try to use Crypsis to do most- if not all- of your icebreaking.

The problem is: Where Crypsis is capable of breaking any kind of ICE, why can't it be used as the main or even only icebreaker in a deck? That's where its zero strength and need to be loaded each turn with a counter becomes such a huge penalty. The costs add up per use of Crypsis in terms of clicks spent on counters and in credits.

I think that what you're doing with Crypsis in your deck is perhaps the right way to use it: you've got other 'breakers but you use Crypsis to fill in gaps when your other 'breakers aren't available. However, such a deck begs the question: why not just dump Crypsis for other cards when I already have other icebreakers for specific kinds of ICE? Cards such as Djinn, Special Order and Test Run make Crypsis less necessary for 'breaking ICE you don't have the 'breaker for while even thinning out and speeding up your deck.

Put those two together and you get the reason why Crypsis is hated. In the presence of other icebreakers that aren't as costly (even if particularly specific), search cards, and good deckbuilding, and you can easily get away from using Crypsis. You just won't need it. Going back to its really low strength, high cost to use, how much time and resources you have to invest to make it worthwhile, and it's practically an unneeded, unwanted card.

As for my Criminal Crypsis experiment, you have to understand that Crims actually play very differently from both Anarchs and Shapers. Despite differences in strategy and method, the latter two are the very similar in that they primarily build up their resources first before making runs. Crims instead focus on the early game, striking right from the start, running as often as possible, doing their best to race the Corp before the Corp gets to set up. Sure, Runners of all factions are opportunists who will make early runs with little or no resources if given the chance, but this is particularly the case of Crims who specialize in evading the Corps' defenses.

As such, Crims have little time to spend on building up resources for the main part of their strategy. The economy you speak of is deceptive; it's precise nature is "big gains very quickly but with little to no sustainability". Account Siphon, Bank Job, Easy Mark are all "big money now but that's it". You may think that Gabriel Santiago or Desperado provide a steady income but that's not true; once Gabe is locked out of HQ one way or another, his ability is useless. Desperado requires successful runs and yet gives little for each one; it's not so much a reward but the softening of the cost of making runs.

In Crypsis' specific case, not only does Crypsis' zero strength mean Criminals pay a lot per use- and thus using up what are actually limited resources- but the fact that they have to load it with a counter (or do other stuff like I did) means allocating clicks- precious time- to it. Each delay gives the Corp a chance to shore up its defenses and eventually lock out the Crim, and Crims particularly do poorly in the late game.

This is what happened to my deck. I got around the need to spend clicks to load Crypsis by using Grimoire and Deja Vu or by installing multiple Crypsis at once (I was willing to sacrifice Crypsis because I could get it back or because I had extras), but it amounted to the same thing: spending extra clicks just to make Crypsis work. Compared to using other, more specific icebreakers, I'd actually save on time, credits and card slots.



#5 sharoth

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:25 AM

I´m pretty sure Crypsis is a bad choice for a lot of decks. But there are decks that put him to really good use. To have Crypsis in a Shaper or Criminal deck works only as a failsafe, at least thats my experience. Where he is a really strong card is in a Noise "Mill-Deck", where you love the additional card he can trash of R&D when he comes into play. In fact he is my only breaker except for 2 copies of corroder in that deck and it works very good. But you have to make sure that you have won after 10-13 runs, cause the money can then be a real issue.



#6 Runix

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:00 AM

The problem is in viewing Crypsis as a be-all-end-all icebreaker, when it's no such thing.  It's a backup system that in most cases is less efficient than the main tools which generally do the job better.  It is also a backup which in many cases is less effective than other tools (Special Order, Test Run), and since more than one backup may not be needed, won't fit in every deck.  But just because it isn't a be-all-end-all that doesn't fit in every deck doesn't mean it's useless.

Shapers who are playing the long game and are intent on building the perfect rig may not need it, and Criminals who have lots of tools for getting around troublesome ice may not use it . . . but that still leaves Anarchs.  And for Anarchs it's an especially good fit, as it works well with other virus cards that are likely to be in the same deck.  Anarchs are also more inclined to use non-icebreakers to get their work done, so having an AI icebreaker (other than Wyrm, which is very situational) is handy.

The important thing to understand about Crypsis is that it is not about credit efficiency (obviously), nor even all that much about utility (although it does have some) - it is more about memory slots and deck efficiency.  Crypsis is a good fit for a deck which has a lot of non-icebreaker tools it uses to get at Agendas, but for backup needs some icebreaking capacity in as little memory and in as few cards as possible.  Runners who have allocated a third of their deck and most of their MUs for icebreakers are not going to need Crypsis; Runners who want to keep the number of icebreakers in the deck to a minimum and who want to use as few MUs as possible for them are going to get the most out of Crypsis.



#7 Brigaldio

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

Hmm.  I don't necessarily agree.  Couple of things.

First, using Crypsis as your only icebreaker is not at all what you want to be doing.  Using Deja Vu to get it back is spending 2 credits and a click for Deja Vu, then five credits and a click to install Crypsis again, then additional credits on making a run.  No wonder you're running out of resources.  Crypsis is most effective when you're using it alongside other icebreakers and loading it with a counter.  In my deck, I'm running one of each "efficient" icebreaker along with special order, plus all three copies of Crypsis.  With Crypsis in my opening hand, I know there's no door I can't open in the early game, which puts loads of pressure on the corp.  Any icebreakers I draw after that just add to my efficiency as the game transitions from early to mid to late.

I don't understand why people seem to be in a credit crunch.  I consider Magnum Opus, Liberated Account, and Armitage Codebusting as auto includes in just about any deck you build.  It's never a question of where you get your resources but how you put them to use given time constraints.  Crypsis fits that plan perfectly because you don't have to waste time drawing to find another icebreaker.

I'm not really seeing where there's another viable strategy as the runner.  There are four places you can get agendas from (R&D, HQ, archives, and remote server), and all of them require resources to get there. 


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#8 Messenger

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:12 PM

Yes, the best way to use Crypsis is as not your only icebreaker. However, it thus raises these questions/problems:

  • If I put in other icebreakers in my deck, why include Crypsis in my deck to begin with? I'll just use the card slot for something else, especially where my other icebreakers are far more efficient, less costly to use and not hard to get.
  • Then again, if I'm to use Crypsis, the only point would be its ability to defeat any icebreaker. So why put in other icebreakers anyway? But in doing so, I spend a lot of clicks and/or cards and credits to make it run.

In a nutshell, it's a bit of an all-or-nothing with Crypsis. As Runix and I pointed out, cards like Special Order and Test Run are simply better, more efficient alternatives. In itself, Crypsis is costly to use even in its capacity as emergency backup.

Deja Vu was an attempt to fit Crypsis into the Criminal strategy of focusing on early, fast runs by paying for it later instead of now. Rather than loading a counter then running, the idea was being able to run immediately without a counter- thus killing Crypsis- then getting it back later. The "later" part was assuming I still needed to do future runs- there's no problem running Crypsis without a counter if doing so results in a successful run that wins you the game. However, the fact that I was using Deja Vu, Grimoire and Cyberfeeders just to support Crypsis was actually a case of replacing Crypsis' costs and penalties with other costs and penalties.

As for credit crunch- and I'm speaking as a Crim player- the cards you mention are all cash-over-time cards. Criminals needs lots of money fast and up-front where their best chances for success are in the early turns; using any of the three you mentioned goes against that. It's possible to successfully splash some of them into a Crim deck, but there's also the other costs they entail, such as card slots and alternatives, memory (Magnum Opus costs 2), influence, etc. It's really a question of deckbuilding and deck balance, but it's easier- and mostly more effective- to pick from the Crim's own tools.

I must reply to your, "Crypsis fits that plan perfectly because you don't have to waste time drawing to find another icebreaker." With Crypsis, you're instead wasting clicks to load it with counters each time you need to use it.

Lastly, a viable alternative strategy for the runner is simply not to use Crypsis and have to put up with its expense- especially when I can do something else that's better. As for resources for getting into servers, other 'breakers and cards can do that at a cheaper price.



#9 Runix

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:25 AM

Special Order and Test Run can be better backup plans for getting critical icebreakers in place, but they're not always better than Crypsis.

When would Crypsis be the better choice?  When you don't know what you're facing, for one thing.  Consider a second turn run at a server with an unrezzed ice and the Corp holding a few credits.  You can take a dummy run at the server, see what the ice is when the Corp rezzes it, then on the next click, Special Order the requisite icebreaker and on the third click do the real run of the server.

 . . . Unless that ice turns out to be Neural Katana.  Whoops!

Crypsis provides a nice one-card solution to that problem, and in the same number of clicks.  Install the Crypsis, power it up, then do the run on the server.  Regardless of what you encounter, you can deal with it, no need to scout the server (unless you're really hard up for credits, in which case you probably shouldn't be running).

Another situation where Crypsis beats Special Order or Test Run?  Chimera.  Got three Special Orders handy?

 



#10 Messenger

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:13 AM

I must point out that such is a very small advantage for its cost. Your example looks at Crypsis in one just particular situation and only for the short term. You have to weigh it against how it affects the game in the long run. You're using up a card slot just for that early game unknown ICE scenario where Special Order and Test Run more surely equips the runner.

If we look at how the situation plays out without Crypsis: Anarchs and Shapers will focus more on building up their stuff than just running blindly in-  they're going to gather all the programs they need to deal with any kind of ICE. All factions have access to Infiltration, and Crims especially have a whole slew of expose tricks to check what they're facing, from Lemuria Codecracker to Satellite Uplink to Snitch. Crims can also just skip or avoid said ICE via Femme Fatale, Inside Job or Sneakdoor Beta. Either way, they can take on the unknown ICE or just evade it if it's too dangerous.

If this is the start of the game as you posited (and the runner is an experienced player), then the runner is likely to have a lot of cards in hand should they actually make a blind run- usually enough to absorb Neural Katana's damage. You can also posit similar easy-to-rez early defense ICE, but their effects aren't usually that damaging (Enigma, Wall of Static), their damage can easily be absorbed (Data Mine), or the ICE can even be negotiated with (bioroid ICE). At best, your first turn included raising some quick cash (Hedge Fund) with which to rez something big and nasty, but unless that ICE can end the game or at least cripple the runner, you've just made yourself poor and given the runner the go signal to do more runs.

As for Chimera, it's also what I previously said. Shapers will build up to have all the answers they could possible need. Anarchs are just going to kill Chimera as soon as it rezzes. Crims can figure out what it is and either prepare for it or avoid it.

The bottom line of Crypsis is this: Are you better off with it in your deck instead of other cards? The gains of Crypsis are so trivial that you might as well go for something else, even if you lose what Crypsis can provide that others can't.



#11 Brigaldio

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:58 PM

Runix makes a good point.  My original analysis of chimera was that it was a situationally useful early game card, but pretty bad overall.  However, if there really is widespread hate for crypsis, then chimera becomes a run stopper that will last you well into mid game, forcing the runner to waste many clicks finding and playing icebreakers to counter it.  Without crypsis, the runner is forced to use cards to get around chimera, and is that really where you want to be?  As a corp I would consider my chimera eating a Parasite or Inside Job a victory.  And if you're using femme fatale on it?  Oh man…

Crypsis allows shapers and anarchs to not be stuck assembling voltron before they can think about making a run.  You don't need the perfect machine to get around ice, you just need the cash.  As you transition into mid game your reliance on crypsis shrinks as you draw other icebreakers or special order whatever else you need.  The ability to be a threat to the corp throughout the game is not a small advantage.  Giving NBN an early Astroscript pilot program, for instance, is asking for trouble.  Both NBN and Weyland can mess with your resources through corp-turn tags if you leave them hanging while the corp threatens to score a fast agenda that you don't have the resources to run.  The same is true of Scorched earth strategies that rely on using agendas to tag the runner during the corp's turn.

 

 


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#12 Messenger

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 08:30 PM

I strongly disagree that a runner using up Parasite or Inside Job just for Chimera is a win for the corp player. If it means the runner successfully accessing the corp's servers and doing something as a result- like come out with an agenda- then that is not a win. As a Crim, I would indeed find using Femme Fatale just for Chimera wasteful, but if it would win me the game, I'd do it in a heartbeat without complaining. In the case of an Anarch using Parasite just for Chimera, he can retrieve Parasite using Deja Vu and install it again. In the long run, that would actually be to the Anarch's favor because it becomes easier for the runner to break Chimera as time passes than it is for Chimera to continue protecting the Corp's servers.

In fact, that's the point of using any of those cards anyway: getting past ICE (of which Chimera is one) to get to the prize behind it. What else is a runner going to use them for?

My critique of using Crypsis as an early way to make runs is that it delays the Runner in setting up a more permanent- and more efficient- ability to break into Corp servers. Again, we go back to card slots, cash and clicks. You say that searching through your deck for more specific icebreakers is a waste but so is paying to install Crypsis, loading Crypsis with a counter, getting the cash to power it, etc. and then tossing Crypsis when it doesn't have a counter or you finally have something better (all of this I experienced in my experiment). All those costs each time you use it will eventually accumulate to drain your resources in the long run, even if you don't use Crypsis that much. That's why some players would rather skip to their preferred tools rather than bother with Crypsis, while good deckbuilding, search cards and draw cards make getting to them not that hard.

In short, the runner could do better by not taking Crypsis' path.

You see Crypsis as a way to threaten the corp throughout the game. I see Crypsis as a card that actually gives the corp some breathing room because the runner must spend clicks and creds on it and more than if he used other icebreakers. You mentioned "assembling Voltron"- consider that Crypsis could actually be slowing down the assembling of Voltron rather than covering for it.



#13 etherial

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:13 AM

Messenger said:

You see Crypsis as a way to threaten the corp throughout the game. I see Crypsis as a card that actually gives the corp some breathing room because the runner must spend clicks and creds on it and more than if he used other icebreakers. You mentioned "assembling Voltron"- consider that Crypsis could actually be slowing down the assembling of Voltron rather than covering for it.

Yes, Crypsis slows slown assembling Voltron by allowing you to run early instead of installing Icebreakers. I've been going back and forth on this wtih my Shaper deck, which wants to get MO out ASAP, but once it's in play, I must have Crypsis or a Killer in order to run.



#14 Messenger

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:30 PM

etherial said:

Messenger said:

 

You see Crypsis as a way to threaten the corp throughout the game. I see Crypsis as a card that actually gives the corp some breathing room because the runner must spend clicks and creds on it and more than if he used other icebreakers. You mentioned "assembling Voltron"- consider that Crypsis could actually be slowing down the assembling of Voltron rather than covering for it.

 

Yes, Crypsis slows slown assembling Voltron by allowing you to run early instead of installing Icebreakers. I've been going back and forth on this wtih my Shaper deck, which wants to get MO out ASAP, but once it's in play, I must have Crypsis or a Killer in order to run.

Um… if you're playing Shaper, you really should not be focusing on running early. It's the Crims who have that as a faction strength and not the Shapers or Anarchs. Any runner should run when given the opportunity, but the only way for Shapers to do that as your primary strategy is to borrow heavily from Crim cards. For example, take note that Magnum Opus provides a steady flow of cash over time, which makes it not that suitable for early, aggressive running.

The strength of Shapers does reside in assembling Voltron and overpowering the Corps' defenses. That's what Kate and Chaos Theory have in common: they support building up your stuff. As for Kit, her ability makes Crypsis even more unnecessary.

And on the topic of running early, Crypsis doesn't even do that good a job. 5 creds and 1 click to install, 1 click per use, and a lot of creds to operate- even a single early run is likely expensive. It's around the same as using a more specific 'breaker in terms of clicks and creds, but Crypsis costs more and more in the long run. Throwing it out later is a waste. There are just other cheaper yet more effective ways to get past ICE you don't have 'breakers for.



#15 Runix

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:39 AM

Messenger said:

My critique of using Crypsis as an early way to make runs is that it delays the Runner in setting up a more permanent- and more efficient- ability to break into Corp servers. Again, we go back to card slots, cash and clicks. You say that searching through your deck for more specific icebreakers is a waste but so is paying to install Crypsis, loading Crypsis with a counter, getting the cash to power it, etc. and then tossing Crypsis when it doesn't have a counter or you finally have something better (all of this I experienced in my experiment). All those costs each time you use it will eventually accumulate to drain your resources in the long run, even if you don't use Crypsis that much.

The problem here is that you are assuming the game goes into the long run.  That's a questionable assumption.

Out of the box, the game definitely favored a long-run approach for Corp, as a significant portion of ice had high costs, and the Corps were stuck with expensive agendas that took multiple turns to advance.  That simply isn't the case any more - Corps now have options that let them run a much faster game, with cheap ice, accelerated card draws, and cheap agendas that can help them get a very fast advantage.

You are absolutely right in that deploying Crypsis will set the Runner behind in assembling Voltron.  But it's entirely possible that the Corp is running an early game gambit that will set the Runner even further behind in assembling Voltron, unless the Runner does something about it immediately (e.g., NBN with an installed card that is very likely Breaking News, with Big Brothers and Account Siphons to follow).

The real value of Crypsis is not in a direct comparison with other breakers, where as you have noted, it is consistently less efficient, and where it is taking up space that the Runner's long-term rig will eventually need.  It's in the speed of the threat that the Runner can deploy, and in forcing the Corp to behave defensively.  If all the Runner has out is a Yog.0, sure, that's a great breaker in the long run - but that gives the Corp enormous freedom, as he can safely assume that the most threat the Runner can bring in the next turn is a one-off Inside Job.  He can drop a barrier and a sentry, and nine times out of ten the Runner won't be able to touch the server - and that can extend several turns out with bad card draws.

With a Crypsis in place (and Special Order can bring up a Crypsis early if absolutely needed), the Corp can't make any safe assumptions, and will have to put significant defenses on every target of value.  Even if the Crypsis is never used, the value of the threat it poses is significant in forcing the Corp to play less efficiently.

(Speaking of Yog.0, that relates to another use for Crypsis - as a backup system in case a highly efficient but limited use breaker isn't cutting it.  Yog.0 will very efficiently dismantle most code gates, but not an Hourglass or a Toll Booth.  Crypsis is a virtual necessity for decks running Yog.0, Mimic, etc. that are not relying on Parasite or Femme Fatale for assistance.)

Again, the advantage is definitely not in efficiency, especially in the long term - it's in speed, and for certain specialized decks, in deck size efficiency.



#16 Messenger

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:09 PM

Runix, it's not that questionable as far as it is very possible. I say that even as a Crim player who gears for early and fast forays into corp servers. As far as the runner's victory lies in stealing at least 3 agendas or watching the corp run out of cards, the length of the game very much lies in the hands of the corp or the luck of the draw.

While this may seem to make the case for the corp moving fast, I find the reality to be the opposite. Experienced corp players now usually go for the 49-card deck size in order to trim down the chances of the runner snagging an agenda- and it does work. This also gives them a bigger chance of drawing ICE or other support cards more than agendas. This ultimately means their game will go through a lot of turns before coming to a conclusion. This is particularly the case for corp factions and decks that follow a building strategy. In fact, the only corp deck I know that doesn't do this are Weyland Scorched Earth decks because they need to put two Scorched Earths together.

The new speed of the corp you mention is a mixed bag. Cheap and quick ICE may raise the need for Crypsis' ability to break different kinds of ICE in one program but it's also foiled when those cheap and quick ICE are stacked together to protect a single server. The more there are, the more the Crypsis user has to spend clicks to load Crypsis just for a single run. Accelerated card draws aren't actually a priority in corp deck building where they increase the chance for both the corp and runner to draw agendas at the wrong time (this is why Diesel is universally used among runners but Anonymous Tip isn't an auto-include for the corp). And packing lots of cheap agendas cuts both ways where you must more card slots to accomodate them (in addition to giving the runner a bigger chance to steal one from successful runs).

From experience playing both sides, I tell you that seeing my opponent use Crypsis will actually reassure me. It's going to slow him down and give me more time to set up. It will cost him resources. Even if he makes a run, succeeds and even snags an agenda, I know he won't be making a run again any time soon. I'll be using the time to build up or even score.

The case of Yog.0 working with Crypsis becomes less and less relevant with the each new data pack. We already have Zu.13 Key Master and Force of Nature, both of which can directly compete with the Yog.0 and Crypsis pair. At the least, I see the Yog.0 and Crypsis duo as both just covering for each other's weaknesses to produce an effect that can be done more cheaply by other cards.



#17 Messenger

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 05:05 AM

Runix, I realize I didn't respond to the possibility of the game ending quickly. In that scenario, I can only speak as a Criminal player but as such I tell you that Crims simply have better alternatives to Crypsis, everything from Special Order, Forged Activation Orders, Inside Job, Sneakdoor Beta, to cards that expose what's de-rezzed, to Emergency Shutdown- majority of which readily find a place in almost any Criminal's deck. Crims can just do without Crypsis for that early game, especially where their stuff just does it better.



#18 Brigaldio

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 11:55 AM

Crypsis also serves as an excellent backup plan if one of your icebreakers gets destroyed.  Without Crypsis, you're running…  what, two of each specific icebreaker and three special orders?  If one of your icebreakers gets trashed, that means having to draw through the remainder of your deck trying to find one of four cards: one specific icebreaker or one of three special orders.  With crypsis, you're increasing the chances of finding what you need.  Now you can find one of three special orders, or one of three crypsis.  If you're running Deja Vu as a hedge against having your icebreakers destroyed, you're losing whatever slot efficiency you gained by excluding Crypsis in the first place and making aggressive use of Deja Vu dangerous - instead of boosting your economy by returning a discarded Armitage Codebusting or Liberated Account (or getting around ice with inside job, emergency shutdown, forged activation orders, etc.), you're stuck on one credit per click because you either had to use Deja vu to recover your icebreaker, or you have to hold deja vu in case you lose something.  Excluding Crypsis makes your deck so much more vulnerable to certain cards.


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#19 Messenger

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:54 PM

I do run 2 of each kind of icebreaker and 3 copies of Special Order, plus 3 copies of Diesel, in a 45 card deck. Looking for and drawing them is not at all hard. Even without Special Order and Diesel, getting my icebreakers naturally isn't hard, such as in my opening hand.

What you're saying now is exactly what I thought when I made my failed Criminal Crypsis deck: it's so much easier to just search for just one icebreaker for most or all of my ICE problems. However, the cost to run Crypsis turned out to be so high that it wasn't worth it.

The scenario you speak of is very particular. Only Haas-Bioroid has that ability among multiple cards (but not that many)- and yet the effect is easy to avoid: Ichi 1.0 (and Sherlock 1.0) can be talked out of it; Rototurret is so easy to break, it's sad; Aggressive Secretary is the most likely to succeed but not many people play it inside and outside HB while most runners use Infiltration and Crims have extra ways to expose derezzed cards. Outside of HB, there's Archer which is not that easy to rez.

Even speaking as an HB player, getting to smash a runner's program is quite rare. Only the most ill-prepared, reckless (or unlucky) of my opponents end up like that and it still doesn't happen often.

As for "running Deja Vu as a hedge against having your icebreakers destroyed", that's what I had to do in my Criminal Crypsis deck because Crypsis- unlike almost every other icebreaker in the game- destroys itself and I didn't always have the time to load it with counters before I had to use it. My deck without Crypsis doesn't need Deja Vu at all.

Now that I think about it, that's another example of in-game program destruction, but it's caused by the program itself.

I reiterate what I've said in this thread: Crypsis' benefits are just too small to compensate for its cost to the point that most players are just better off using the card slots on something else. The only way to make it work is to include other cards that support it while offsetting that investment by synergizing those support cards with other elements in your deck. In the event that said deck includes other icebreakers, you have to recognize that either Crypsis or those other 'breakers presence in the deck may be wastefully redundant.



#20 Brigaldio

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 02:17 PM

You're analyzing crypsis as if it's your only icebreaker.  If that's what you're doing, yes, you're going to fail hard.  I don't know why you would try to do that…  Crypsis is a backup and gap filler, not your main icebreaker.  I'm not trying to argue that it should be your main icebreaker.  But the benefits of having it far outweigh the disadvantages of not including it, and I would argue that Crypsis + one of each icebreaker is stronger than two of each icebreaker.


Now blogging Netrunner, Warmachine, Malifaux, Dust: Warfare, and anything else that catches my interest at Dice Minus Seven.





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