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Each round +10 pts is too much


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#1 Cutievalkyrie

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:13 PM

So why should we care about the damage tokens on our heroes? The grading system needs improvement.



#2 bollywongaloid

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:12 PM

I don't bother adding the +10 per round.  It was only introduced to prevent players from loitering about before winning the scenario to gain victory cards and reduce their threat.  And since I never did this anyway, and don't play particularly competitively (I rarely score anyway), I don't bother.



#3 Colino

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:06 AM

It is far too much, the moment they introduced 10 per round basically means damage on heroes is nearly meaningless (in fact even losing a heroe can be better than taking 1 extra round) and victory points nearly pointless.

I feel like 4 or 5 per round would've been enough.



#4 Ellareth

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:25 AM

Think about it this way.

If each round wasn't significant in score (like 10 points), why would anyone risk taking damage on hereos or losing hero to finish the quest quickly?

Whole point of introducing new score mechanic was so people were encouraged to win the quest as fast as possible, even if it meant taking additional damage on heroes and possibly risking losing them.



#5 benhanses

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:28 AM

I've always felt the +10 points per round was a bit excessive.  I understand the need for prompting quick play for scoring purposes.  But I think a round "penalty" of +5 points would have been adequate.  This would roughly equate to the same as decent damage to two of your heroes.

 

In the end, though, as long as the scoring affects all players equally (which it does), it really can't be considered "unfair".


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#6 The_Big_Show

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:33 AM

It was a poor idea when it was introduced and it hasen't got any better since. No one I know uses it. We stick to the scoring system in the rulebook which is fairer.



#7 Colino

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:30 PM

Ellareth said:

Think about it this way.

If each round wasn't significant in score (like 10 points), why would anyone risk taking damage on hereos or losing hero to finish the quest quickly?

Whole point of introducing new score mechanic was so people were encouraged to win the quest as fast as possible, even if it meant taking additional damage on heroes and possibly risking losing them.

I think it's fine to add a score per round, but the fact of the matter is 10 points is absolutely massive.

It nearly negates victory points (which serve no purpose other than to keep annoying cards out of the encounter deck) and makes trying not to take damage completely pointless.



#8 Ellareth

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 01:58 PM

Colino said:

I think it's fine to add a score per round, but the fact of the matter is 10 points is absolutely massive.

It nearly negates victory points (which serve no purpose other than to keep annoying cards out of the encounter deck) and makes trying not to take damage completely pointless.

 

Hmm I suppose 5 points per round would have served equal purpose. Yeah now I see how some people might feel it is too much when you start considering most Victory Points are 1~5.
 



#9 Hannibal_pjv

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:16 AM

I think that 10 points per round if very good. It is very easy to calculate and it encourages very fast gaming, and that is very good if you keep an tournament!

Old sytem is very bad for tournament, You just stall fore ever and reduce your treath and woulds to zero… How exating…

5 would be ok, but 37*5 is not so easy to calculate than 37*10 (hte difference is not big though). Allso 5 per round allows some posibilities to reduce your treath and wound count, so 10 is better in that way too.



#10 Glaurung

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:30 PM

Hannibal_pjv said:

I think that 10 points per round if very good. It is very easy to calculate and it encourages very fast gaming, and that is very good if you keep an tournament!

Old sytem is very bad for tournament, You just stall fore ever and reduce your treath and woulds to zero… How exating…

5 would be ok, but 37*5 is not so easy to calculate than 37*10 (hte difference is not big though). Allso 5 per round allows some posibilities to reduce your treath and wound count, so 10 is better in that way too.

agree 100%


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#11 Colino

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:57 AM

Hannibal_pjv said:

I think that 10 points per round if very good. It is very easy to calculate and it encourages very fast gaming, and that is very good if you keep an tournament!

First of all this is a co-op game with it's own optional tournament rules, so catering the normal game's rules to tournament playing is absolutely non-sensical and is not something FFG want do with this game anyway.

Second of all, you need to go back to school if you find multiplying by 5 harder than multiplying by 10.



#12 Ellareth

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:47 PM

Colino said:

Hannibal_pjv said:

 

I think that 10 points per round if very good. It is very easy to calculate and it encourages very fast gaming, and that is very good if you keep an tournament!

 

 

First of all this is a co-op game with it's own optional tournament rules, so catering the normal game's rules to tournament playing is absolutely non-sensical and is not something FFG want do with this game anyway.

Second of all, you need to go back to school if you find multiplying by 5 harder than multiplying by 10.

 

First of all, very rude.

FFG does want to develope some sort of tournament rules without modifcying existing rules as far as I can see so far, Hannibal's reasoning isn't at fault.

Secondly, if you don't know the difference between 'hard' and 'harder', you are the one who need to go back to school.



#13 DurinIII

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:46 AM

10 points a round is absolutely dumb and unecessary. So let me get his straight, they decided to add that dumb stipulation to the game scoring because a couple of greedy, exploitatative, power gamers began to stall the game out to find more "victory" cards? That's ridiculous. By the way, how did they find out about that happening? Were the game testers the ones who figured out they could cheat themselves? Or was it a topic on these message boards that I happened to miss? Regardless, 10 points is too much and really makes winning "2-3" victory points on certain cards mostly useless. Plus, I just don't like having that extra step in my game rounds. They made a threat tracker for tracking turn progress, we don't need an additional mechanic like adding points each round. Ever since they dropped the silly rule, I have purposefully not applied it.



#14 Glaurung

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:15 AM

DurinIII said:

10 points a round is absolutely dumb and unecessary. So let me get his straight, they decided to add that dumb stipulation to the game scoring because a couple of greedy, exploitatative, power gamers began to stall the game out to find more "victory" cards? That's ridiculous. By the way, how did they find out about that happening? Were the game testers the ones who figured out they could cheat themselves? Or was it a topic on these message boards that I happened to miss? Regardless, 10 points is too much and really makes winning "2-3" victory points on certain cards mostly useless. Plus, I just don't like having that extra step in my game rounds. They made a threat tracker for tracking turn progress, we don't need an additional mechanic like adding points each round. Ever since they dropped the silly rule, I have purposefully not applied it.

This rule is done for the Competive part of the game. Without this 10 point is almost impossible play tournamnets. And also for the quest log is also very important.

Sure if you just play home with your friends you dont need that.


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#15 Colino

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:34 AM

Ellareth said:

First of all, very rude.

FFG does want to develope some sort of tournament rules without modifcying existing rules as far as I can see so far, Hannibal's reasoning isn't at fault.

Secondly, if you don't know the difference between 'hard' and 'harder', you are the one who need to go back to school.

I wasn't aiming the school comment at anyone in general (sorry if that sounded "rude"), it was just a jab at his notion that they shouldn't use 5 because it's "not so easy" to multiply with, which is just ridicolous.

I'm fully aware they want to develop tournament rules (they already have), that's why I implied this 10 point ruling should be used for tournaments since it's ideal in that scenario, but for co-op play I (and others) believe that 10 points a round is just too much.

5 points a round still pushes you to not exploit healing and threat control (you'll still want to take the least amount of rounds possible) but at least it makes Victory points and not taking damage worth it.

With 5 points you could make up for a bad turn by making enough victory points, with 10 points a turn that's just not possible.



#16 DurinIII

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:44 AM

I can see your point there, Glaurung. Happy gaming!



#17 Colino

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:33 AM

Glaurung said:

This rule is done for the Competive part of the game. Without this 10 point is almost impossible play tournamnets. And also for the quest log is also very important.

Sure if you just play home with your friends you dont need that.

Yeah I agree with you that it's not important when playing with friends, but still, I like to keep track of stuff on the quest log so I obviously want to use the proper scoring system when registering my scores.

At the end of the day you're right though, it's not a competitive game so it doesn't really matter. I just wish they looked into it because I really do believe 10 points is too much for what they're supposed to do.



#18 jrd

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 02:46 AM

Bear in mind also that toe +10 victory points was introduced before the errata on Beravor and Zigil Miner. It's much harder to drop your threat to 0 than it used to be. I'd have thought +5 per round would be a decent compromise.






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