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Hoth Operations and edge battles


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#1 Jedi duo

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 01:18 PM

Hello

 

We were playing our first game with the new cards ( excellent by the way ) and we came across the following:

In the play area on the alliance side was amoung other cards a Hoth Operations objective and a snowspeeder.

The Alliance then attacked which started an edge battle. We each played a card with 1 force icon. (The alliance card was not a speeder). The question is does the speeder add plus one to the edge battle or does it have to be played in the edge battle?

 

Thanks

R&R



#2 dbmeboy

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 01:50 PM

Jedi duo said:

Hello

 

We were playing our first game with the new cards ( excellent by the way ) and we came across the following:

In the play area on the alliance side was amoung other cards a Hoth Operations objective and a snowspeeder.

The Alliance then attacked which started an edge battle. We each played a card with 1 force icon. (The alliance card was not a speeder). The question is does the speeder add plus one to the edge battle or does it have to be played in the edge battle?

 

Thanks

R&R

From pg 25:

"Edge (x)
The “Edge” keyword is always followed by a value. This value is the number of additional Force icons the card’s controller counts in an edge battle resolved  during an engagement in which the card with the “Edge” keyword participates."

So, the speeder that is attacking (or defending) adds 1 to your edge total.



#3 The Gas

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:49 PM

Say you have two Hoth Ops out.  Do they stack?



#4 dbmeboy

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:27 PM

The Gas said:

Say you have two Hoth Ops out.  Do they stack?

I don't think that's entirely clear.  I'll submit the question, but in the meantime I think that they will stack.  Each copy of Hoth Operations gives the speeder Edge (1),  so effectively it would have Edge (1) Edge (1).  Since you add that to your number of force icons in the edge battle, I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to add both.



#5 dbmeboy

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 05:08 AM

Official answer is that value dependent keywords (like edge) do stack, but other keywords (like Elite) do not.

#6 Rogue 4

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 05:34 AM

I would agree because if Mon Mothma and a Speeder were attacking together with the Hoth obj. out they would gain +2 to the Edge.

 



#7 dbmeboy

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 05:44 AM

Rogue 4 said:

I would agree because if Mon Mothma and a Speeder were attacking together with the Hoth obj. out they would gain +2 to the Edge.

 

Also true, but the bigger point is that the speeder with 2 copies of Hoth Operations adds 2 by itself (from having 2 instances of Edge 1).

#8 Rogue 4

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 06:11 AM

Ok let's try this (and it may open a whole new bag of problems, I am not sure):

Defense Protocol x2 let's you do two damage to a unit.

Emperor's Web x2 let's the first Sith Event becomes -2

Mission Briefing x2 let's you draw 2 cards on your opponent's turn

So I would see how Hoth Operations would each give a speeder Edge(1) meaning a speeder would have Edge (2) if there were two out.

 



#9 just Logan

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 06:56 AM

To break it down based on the above "Official answer is that value dependent keywords (like edge) do stack, but other keywords (like Elite) do not." 

What is ment by dependant cards is that a number has to be applied like edge or damage. If you take the number out of the text it becomes nonsense. If that is the case they stack. These cards also normally say gains or adds. Think of that as a +. Cards without a number dependancy are treated as True False. Check for elite- True Effect happens. no stacking. I imagine the same will be true when we start adding cards that give keywords. 



#10 BD Flory

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:23 PM

Rogue 4 said:

Ok let's try this (and it may open a whole new bag of problems, I am not sure):

Defense Protocol x2 let's you do two damage to a unit.

Emperor's Web x2 let's the first Sith Event becomes -2

Mission Briefing x2 let's you draw 2 cards on your opponent's turn

So I would see how Hoth Operations would each give a speeder Edge(1) meaning a speeder would have Edge (2) if there were two out.

While it's true that each of these pairs work, they work for different reasons.

Defense protocol is simply two separate reactions to the beginning of your draw phase, ditto mission briefing. They don't "stack" any more than playing two copies of, say, superlaser as two separate actions "stack."

Emperor's Web, which Hoth Ops has the most in common with, simply applies two separate cost reductions of 1 each, for a total cost reduction of 2. This is still slightly different, though, as both copies of Web are affecting the same stat on the affected card.

Even here, Hoth Ops is slightly different, because it's adding a second copy of a keyword to another card's text, so the relevant ruling is what happens when a *that* card has two instances of a particular keyword. As Rogue 4 says, the takeaway for this ruling is that if a particular card has the Edge trait multiple times, the values are additive.



#11 MasterJediAdam

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:24 AM

Rogue 4 said:

Ok let's try this (and it may open a whole new bag of problems, I am not sure):

Defense Protocol x2 let's you do two damage to a unit.

Emperor's Web x2 let's the first Sith Event becomes -2

Mission Briefing x2 let's you draw 2 cards on your opponent's turn

So I would see how Hoth Operations would each give a speeder Edge(1) meaning a speeder would have Edge (2) if there were two out.

 

wait, so if I have 2x Emperor's Web on table, the first [Sith] event is -2?


Welcome to the machine!


#12 dbmeboy

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:37 AM

MasterJediAdam said:

wait, so if I have 2x Emperor's Web on table, the first [Sith] event is -2?

Correct.  Each reduces the first Sith event by 1, so combined it is reduced by 2.



#13 hundreds

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:58 AM

 

Well if that is the case for Emporer's Web (resulting in a -2 cost for both objectives), how is Kuat Reinforcements handled?
 
I recently read a posting on the Board Game Geek about having two Kuat Reinforcements in play. The question was whether whether you could discard ONE card to reduce the cost of a card by 2, since Kuat Reinforcements reads: "Interrupt: When you play a Vehicle unit, discard X cards from your hand to reduce its cost by X (to a minimum of 1)."
 
The answer to the post was that "each objective is treated distinctly with a separate interrupt trigger".
 
Is that correct?


#14 dbmeboy

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:02 PM

hundreds said:

 

 

Well if that is the case for Emporer's Web (resulting in a -2 cost for both objectives), how is Kuat Reinforcements handled?
 
I recently read a posting on the Board Game Geek about having two Kuat Reinforcements in play. The question was whether whether you could discard ONE card to reduce the cost of a card by 2, since Kuat Reinforcements reads: "Interrupt: When you play a Vehicle unit, discard X cards from your hand to reduce its cost by X (to a minimum of 1)."
 
The answer to the post was that "each objective is treated distinctly with a separate interrupt trigger".
 
Is that correct?

 

 

Yes.  Note that Kuat Reinforcements has an Interrupt ability, each of which resolves seperately.  Emperor's Web is a constant ability which is always on.



#15 just Logan

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 06:10 AM

correct end result but the this was missed- Kuat the discard is a cost- Faq 4.1



#16 dj9091

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:13 AM

Greetings…just wanted to address something on the initial flavor of the edge battle question.  If the speeder gains Edge [1] based on the objective in play, does the speeder need to be participating in an engagement or just in play?  I ask this because Mon Mothma's text specifically triggers when she's part of the engagement.  But the objective does not say "a participating speeder".  So if I had two speeders in play but not in the engagement, could I count the edge bonus in my favor?



#17 dbmeboy

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 03:02 AM

dj9091 said:

Greetings…just wanted to address something on the initial flavor of the edge battle question.  If the speeder gains Edge [1] based on the objective in play, does the speeder need to be participating in an engagement or just in play?  I ask this because Mon Mothma's text specifically triggers when she's part of the engagement.  But the objective does not say "a participating speeder".  So if I had two speeders in play but not in the engagement, could I count the edge bonus in my favor?

The speeders will always have edge (1), but having edge (x) only adds to your total during edge battles in which the unit is participating.

#18 theChony

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:54 AM

For those playing along at home, this can be found at the top of page 25:

"EDGE[x] - This value is the number of additional Force icons the card's controller counts in an edge battle resolved during an engagement in which the card with the "Edge" keyword participates."



#19 theChony

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:56 AM

For those playing along at home, this can be found at the top of page 25:

"EDGE[x] - This value is the number of additional Force icons the card's controller counts in an edge battle resolved during an engagement in which the card with the "Edge" keyword participates."



#20 dj9091

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 05:19 AM

Dang…totally missed that in the rules as I got so wrapped around the text on Mon Monthma's card stating that she had to be participating and the objective didn't have that statement.  Perhaps it was some wishful thinking as a win was within my grasp…and then  it was gone.  However, had I won the edge battle, things would have been different so I cried about how I didn't get to use my objective (had two speeders in play, not participating).  Ah well…I guess I deserved the beating (both game and physical).






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