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Milage/Range of vehicles


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#1 Greers

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 01:15 AM

In "Final Testament" players may run out of promethium in the first act. ALso in other supplements i read refernces to the range of vehicles. SO her's my question: where do I find this info?

I looked everywhere in the sourcebook. I looked in the Lexicanum. I googled. I don't find anything. There's cruising speed an such but not any reference to max range. Seems they just forgot that.



#2 Kasatka

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:38 AM

Simply put there are no hard and fast rules or figures for what you are looking for - they are simply a narrative mechanic used by the GM to spice up games where the players have vehicles.


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#3 Alekzanter

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 03:41 AM

Imperial Guard tanks (mostly the Leman Russ and the Chimera) are vaguely similar in appearance to a combination of the British-produced Vickers A1E1 "Independent" and the Mark VIII "Liberty", although the A1E1 is fairly swift (32kph) and the Mark VIII is slow as sin (8.5 Kph). The A1E1 was rated as having an operational range of (approx.) 153 km, and the Mark VIII was about 81 km. A Leman Russ is listed as having a Cruising Speed of 35 kph; perhaps the M15-M25 (Dark Age of Technology) STC designs for its power plant, transmission, and suspension are superior to those of M2 (between WWI and WWII). That, or it has two inferior power plants… 

Using the A1E1 as the base (one power plant, perhpas a V12 or larger), the Leman Russ MBT is (not quite) 1% faster, so it probably has an operational range of (approx.) 155 km, before requiring a refuel. Without getting into too many "technical" obscurities (like the fact that a MBT weighs 40% more than a Mark VIII), the power plant(s) of the MBT probably produce (approx.) 350-375 hp (maybe less if Prometheum is a WWI/WWII diesel equivalent; I don't remember reading anywhere that Prometheum "gels" in freezing temps like diesel, so there is that…).
I'm just throwing a number out (based very loosely on the M4 Sherman): the fuel capacity of a MBT is (approx.) 700 liters, which means it probably uses 4.5 liters per km. 700 liters is (approx.) 3.5 drums of fuel. As most MBT models have one, perhaps two drums banded to the rear skirting, you're looking at a fuel reserve of 210-420 liters, or an additional operating range of (approx.) 50-100 km. 

Based on the MBT model (so scale is questionable) I'd say its main gun is at least 200mm (8"), if not more.
Ah, this page http://wh40k.lexican...nk#.UUhwu9YpxzM confirms that (as well as listing additional specs of the Leman Russ MBT). For those asking in other threads, the Clip of a Battle Cannon is 12, but the MBT carries an additional 28 shells in its shot locker and/or in the exterior boxes (or so says the link).

This was actually quite fun, as well as being useful to me for future referrence. I simply Googled "tanks, WWI" and looked for something resembling that big bastard from Indiana Jones: Raiders of the Lost Ark (which is actually a Mark VII; see here: http://indianajones....k?file=Tank.jpg).

Other tanks referrenced:

FCM Char C2 Heavy Tank/Super Heavy Tank (1921) http://www.militaryf...sp?armor_id=282 and http://www.chars-fra...0 poitou 01.jpg



#4 AtoMaki

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:36 AM

As a sidenote: all Imperial Guard vehicles run on Handwavium (local name: Prometheum) and not normal fuel. Since they load the same thing into their jet fighters/super-heavy aerospace dropships/motorbikes, I would say that it has some crazy efficiency ratio so the same ammount of Prometheum will allow a much greater operational range than "normal" fuel. The IG vehicles probably has ranges in thousands of kilometers but their fuel burn up much more quickly in battles, as their (often energy) weapons also use the same energy source as their engines. 

Also, IG vehicles are only comparable to WW1 tanks in design. Because y'know, last time I checked, WW1 tanks didn't have laser and/or palsma weapons ;)



#5 Nightcloak

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:19 PM

for my playergroup i use the bmp-3 (russian apc) as reference for their chimera

that means 600km range at cruising speed

works pretty good thus far considering they are currently engaged in a deserst/steppe warfare against orks and dark eldar so they travel a lot which leads to some funny logistics tests :)



#6 Alekzanter

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 03:49 AM

AtoMaki said:

 

As a sidenote: all Imperial Guard vehicles run on Handwavium (local name: Prometheum) and not normal fuel. Since they load the same thing into their jet fighters/super-heavy aerospace dropships/motorbikes, I would say that it has some crazy efficiency ratio so the same ammount of Prometheum will allow a much greater operational range than "normal" fuel. The IG vehicles probably has ranges in thousands of kilometers but their fuel burn up much more quickly in battles, as their (often energy) weapons also use the same energy source as their engines. 

Also, IG vehicles are only comparable to WW1 tanks in design. Because y'know, last time I checked, WW1 tanks didn't have laser and/or palsma weapons ;)

 

 

The Bradley carries 746 liters of fuel and gets a little more than 1.6 km per 3.8 liters of fuel, with an operational range of 483 km. Heavily armored Humvees get 6.4 km out of the same quantity of fuel. So perhaps we "hand wave" the operational range of a Leman Russ MBT at 350-400 km, and alter milage to reflect the change? Maybe Prometheum is the "ultimate" fuel? 

As long as your Sergeant is so mean he pisses Prometheum, fuel Logistics shouldn't be an issue. Just hook him (or her) up to the fuel intake, ala A Boy And His Dog-style…



#7 AtoMaki

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:06 AM

Alekzanter said:

The Bradley carries 746 liters of fuel and gets a little more than 1.6 km per 3.8 liters of fuel, with an operational range of 483 km. Heavily armored Humvees get 6.4 km out of the same quantity of fuel. So perhaps we "hand wave" the operational range of a Leman Russ MBT at 350-400 km, and alter milage to reflect the change? Maybe Prometheum is the "ultimate" fuel? 

As long as your Sergeant is so mean he pisses Prometheum, fuel Logistics shouldn't be an issue. Just hook him (or her) up to the fuel intake, ala A Boy And His Dog-style…

Again, they load that thing into their jets too, so I guess "ultimate fuel" is a weak term to describe Prometheum. Just imagine an M1A1 Abrams running on military jet fuel… I think IG vehicles should have a combat range roughly in the dimensions of modern day fighter jets (so 1500-2000 kilometers). But again, this range will drop drastically once these vehicles engage in combat as their weapons will drain the fuel tanks dry. 

And hey, according to the IG Codex, LRs can run on piss too :D



#8 ranoncles

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:38 AM

Umm, people….you all seem to forget these vehicles are based on STC designs which were standardized templates meant for use by colonists. The engines are multi-fuel engines capable of running any available fuel (see Imperial Armour books).  So promethium, diesel, wood chips, fat babies, whatever.

 

Which means range is whatever the DM wants it to be. Modern vehicles could provide a good comparison though.



#9 Alekzanter

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:10 AM

ranoncles said:

…fat babies…

Laughed so hard I pooped, just a little.



#10 Alekzanter

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:20 AM

AtoMaki said:

 

I think IG vehicles should have a combat range roughly in the dimensions of modern day fighter jets (so 1500-2000 kilometers).  

 

 

Just to put this into perspective, it's over 1600 kilometers from Berlin to Moscow. That's also the distance between Seattle and Omaha, via railroad. 



#11 Adeptus-B

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

Leaving fuel ranges up to the GM is a cop-out. How is that any different than saying a weapon's ammo capacity is 'up to the GM'? This is an oversight that pisses me off…

I usually resort to looking up the fuel ranges of camparable vehicles on the interwebs, and extrapolating as best I can. But I shouldn't have to bother- this info should have been included with every vehicle's stats…



#12 Nightcloak

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 03:04 PM

the argument about the jets is mute… the abrams and many modern MBTs use turbine engines BECAUSE they can use every kind of fuel (but they usually run on diesel) because it makes supply easier in foreign territory

also bear in mind that jets have

A) much less weight than MBTs (F-35 31tons vs. Abrams 63tons)

B) carry much more fuel (F-35 ~8tons fuel vs. Abrams ~1,5tons)

that being said i use 400km for MBTs and 600km for APCs, ill think about jets and hovercraft when they come of importance



#13 aresfiftytwo

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:58 PM

AtoMaki said:

Alekzanter said:

 

The Bradley carries 746 liters of fuel and gets a little more than 1.6 km per 3.8 liters of fuel, with an operational range of 483 km. Heavily armored Humvees get 6.4 km out of the same quantity of fuel. So perhaps we "hand wave" the operational range of a Leman Russ MBT at 350-400 km, and alter milage to reflect the change? Maybe Prometheum is the "ultimate" fuel? 

As long as your Sergeant is so mean he pisses Prometheum, fuel Logistics shouldn't be an issue. Just hook him (or her) up to the fuel intake, ala A Boy And His Dog-style…

 

 

Again, they load that thing into their jets too, so I guess "ultimate fuel" is a weak term to describe Prometheum. Just imagine an M1A1 Abrams running on military jet fuel… I think IG vehicles should have a combat range roughly in the dimensions of modern day fighter jets (so 1500-2000 kilometers). But again, this range will drop drastically once these vehicles engage in combat as their weapons will drain the fuel tanks dry. 

And hey, according to the IG Codex, LRs can run on piss too :D

I don't think the Abrams is a good example. It has a turbine engine originally design for the AH-64 Apache but did not make the cut. The Abrams can already run on JP8 (jet fuel) and get about 260ish mile out of a roughly 500 gallon tank. Not bad for 68 ton of hate. IG tanks are much bigger in the pictures than modern military vehicle. I would think that the engine tech would be higher than our but IG does everything big. I would give the tanks a generous range of 500-650 miles or 800-1000 kilometers, whatever you flavor.

Let’s remember that the IG biggest enemy is not Chaos or Xenos but its logistical nightmare of keeping billions of troops supplies; hence the lasgun.



#14 Greers

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 07:15 PM

Thank you, people! I think I'll go with 500 km for the Chimera of my Mechanized Squad. Far enough for "normal" use, but short enough to be interesting behing enemy lines. Seems like a compromise between al your thoughts and storytelling. Unlimited Rage would be boring reir



#15 Tygre

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:37 PM

A Comparable tank to the Leman Russ (Similar size, weight, and and armour thickness) would be the Centurion.  The Centurion has a 100Km range.

Generally the bigger the vehicle the shorter the range.






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