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Boiling Down the Specialties


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#1 Plushy

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 04:23 PM

I want to do a re-working of Deathwatch because I really prefer the newer BC/OW rules to the older, clunkier ones. The one part I'm really hung up on is the Specialties; help me boil down what they need to do? I'm struggling with a few of them.

  • Tactical: Needs to find his role in things. He's not as good as shooting as the Devastator, not as good in a brawl as the Assault, not as smart as the Apothecary or Techmarine… I need massive help with this one.
  • Assault: Needs to be really good at whacking the bad guys until they die. Works best as a sort of dueling combatant; focus on killing single targets in melee. Potentially give him bonuses to damage to Magnitude or something to make him 'tank'-y; considering a mechanic similar to a Fighter's Mark in 4e D&D.
  • Devastator: Needs to be really good at shooting lots of dudes with a big weapon, or shooting one big thing with even bigger weapon. Most easily done by giving him bonuses to spraying Full-Auto, dealing Magnitude damage with Heavy weapons, or something about destroying vehicles and massive creatures.
  • Apothecary: Needs to escape the 'healbot' role. Keep his bonuses to healing the Kill-Team but also give him extra poisons and drugs maybe?? I need help on this one.
  • Techmarine: Needs to fix things, drive the vehicles, and be smart to boot. Overlaps with the Apothecary in being the smart guy. I need help on this one.
  • Librarian: Needs to stop being a one-man wrecking machine, instead focusing on party buffs like a good Wizard. Perhaps just build a new Psychic Power list?

I could also use some help with what gear everyone should get.


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

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#2 MagnusPihl

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 01:51 AM

We had the problem in our game that the Apothecary felt boring, so we decided to enhance his Chem-Use skill. What we came up with was a "Drugs" system, that had a similar mechanic to Psychic Powers (because so far, Perils of the Warp had been the highlights of every game we had played).

We haven't used this a lot and it's likely unbalanced, but so far it's been pretty fun. It could theoretically be used by anyone, but the skill requirement (Chem-Use) and equipment benefit (Narthecium) heavily suggest an Apothecary as the user. You might want to limit it to just Apothecaries to keep it special.

Some of the below drugs are straight from the core book, some were modified from Black Crusade and some we've made up.

----------------

 

In order to apply a drug, the user must make a Chem-Use skill check and spend a Full Action.
A dose can be used on someone other than oneself, but if they are unwilling it requires a Weapon Skill check, to which they may React.
A Narthecium can reduce this to a Half Action.
 
De-Tox: Immediately ends all ongoing effects of drugs, toxins and gases. When taken, the user is stunned for 2 rounds.
Deadlock: Target loses 3d10 Strength for 3 rounds.
Roofies: Target becomes more receptive of commands. All Fellowship tests taken against the target, by any source, gain a +20 bonus.
Drive: Target gains +20 Strength for 3 rounds.
Rose: Target gains Dark Sight and +20 Perception for 5 rounds.
Slaught: Target gains +20 Agility for 3 rounds.
Frenzon: Target gains Frenzy until the end of combat.
Blue Fire: Target may re-roll Focus Power tests, but even Fettered Psychic Tests cause Psychic Phenomena as if they were Unfettered.
Scab: Target gains +20 Toughness for 3 rounds.
Genophage: Each dose must be custom made (Trade[Chymist] skill) for its intended target. The victim must pass a Hard(-20) Toughness Test or take 1d10+5 impact damage (no armour or TB) every round until he dies. If he succeeds on a single Toughness test, the drug ends completely.
 
If the two dice of the Chem-Use test come up as the same number, the drug causes a side effect (whether or not the application was successful):
 
1d100 Effect
01-20: Muscle Seizure - Immobilized for 1 round.
21-40: Poisoned - Take 1d5 Wounds, not reduced by Armour or Toughness.
41-60: Involuntary Vomiting - Unable to act or react for 1 round.
61-80: Psychedelic Trip - Take 1d5 Insanity Points and must attempt to flee for 2 rounds, even if Fearless.
81-94: Violent Delusions - Must attack allies in any way possible for 3 rounds. This can be reversed with a Hard(-30) Command test.
95-00: Physical Rejection - A random limb (one arm or leg) is completely locked down. Unless a Hellish(-60) Medicae skill is performed within 3 rounds, function of that limb is permanently lost.

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#3 Hrathen

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:15 AM

Plushy said:

I want to do a re-working of Deathwatch because I really prefer the newer BC/OW rules to the older, clunkier ones. The one part I'm really hung up on is the Specialties; help me boil down what they need to do? I'm struggling with a few of them.

  • Librarian: Needs to stop being a one-man wrecking machine, instead focusing on party buffs like a good Wizard. Perhaps just build a new Psychic Power list?

I could also use some help with what gear everyone should get.

What psychic powers would you recomend.  Making the party harder to pin, just didn't seem as good as A Flamer than never runs out of ammo.  Sure One buffs the party and the other just gives you a weapon, but the buff isn't that great.


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#4 Adeptus-B

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:56 AM

Plushy said:

Tactical: Needs to find his role in things. He's not as good as shooting as the Devastator, not as good in a brawl as the Assault, not as smart as the Apothecary or Techmarine… I need massive help with this one.

Tactical Marines should be good all-arounds, rather than being focused on one specialty. They are tough-as-nails foot-sloggers who are jacks-of-all-(battlefield) trades. They should be better in assault than Devastators and better at range than Assault Marines- prepared to fill any battlefield role at a moment's notice.

Plushy said:

Apothecary: Needs to escape the 'healbot' role. Keep his bonuses to healing the Kill-Team but also give him extra poisons and drugs maybe?? I need help on this one.

To avoid being one-note medics, I would make Apothecaries the know-it-all 'science officer'-types within a Killteam.



#5 Cryhavok

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 03:37 AM

Tactical marine works best with others. By that I am refering to both its ability to fill any role and any gap in the unit, and its ability to extend its chapter specific abilities to his companions.

The apothecary is a support role, trying to make it less so is a mistake. Support characters however can do alot more than just watch others shine. The chem use suggestion from earlier is a decent one.

The tech marine deals with technology. Wheather that is hacking enemy machine spirits, building a melta bomb, building a servitor, or unleashing the might of a mechanicus array on some poor unsuspecting fool.

As to the librarian: you talk about making it into a support character in the same post that you say you want to make a support character less supporty. Also, fluff wise, librarians are not simple support types. So why do you want to rewrite thier role? I dont think it needs it personally.


#6 Sakara44

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:23 PM

Plushy said:

I want to do a re-working of Deathwatch because I really prefer the newer BC/OW rules to the older, clunkier ones. The one part I'm really hung up on is the Specialties; help me boil down what they need to do? I'm struggling with a few of them.

  • Tactical: Needs to find his role in things. He's not as good as shooting as the Devastator, not as good in a brawl as the Assault, not as smart as the Apothecary or Techmarine… I need massive help with this one.
  • Assault: Needs to be really good at whacking the bad guys until they die. Works best as a sort of dueling combatant; focus on killing single targets in melee. Potentially give him bonuses to damage to Magnitude or something to make him 'tank'-y; considering a mechanic similar to a Fighter's Mark in 4e D&D.
  • Devastator: Needs to be really good at shooting lots of dudes with a big weapon, or shooting one big thing with even bigger weapon. Most easily done by giving him bonuses to spraying Full-Auto, dealing Magnitude damage with Heavy weapons, or something about destroying vehicles and massive creatures.
  • Apothecary: Needs to escape the 'healbot' role. Keep his bonuses to healing the Kill-Team but also give him extra poisons and drugs maybe?? I need help on this one.
  • Techmarine: Needs to fix things, drive the vehicles, and be smart to boot. Overlaps with the Apothecary in being the smart guy. I need help on this one.
  • Librarian: Needs to stop being a one-man wrecking machine, instead focusing on party buffs like a good Wizard. Perhaps just build a new Psychic Power list?

I could also use some help with what gear everyone should get.

 

Tactical is most of all a LEADER. he can suport or fill most roles the others spec in,.

Assult is the best Close combat guy you ever have. Spec if he goes two weapon path.

Devastator yea suport covering fire etc

Apothecary: healbot?? oh you mean the guy who is weilding a powerfist at the frontline shouting curses at the enemy? the apothecary is only a healbot if the player plays him as one. 

Techmarine is techsupport…he already is this…

Librarians: Ok am I missing something here or is it just my playstyle? I have one direkt damage power (will have two as max) but rest is only support powers. I dont see any need for aditional powers. except maybe giving the chapeters outside the corebook a few more to make them equal to the once in it.

there are few powers that are for pure power (smite, avenger, hellfire, might of the ancients, vortex of doom (useless imo), Might of heroes, Blood boil, blood lance, true strike (only against psy rating), Living lightning, Fury of the wolf spirits, Crown of Lightning, Fury of the ancients, )
Note that a several (from might of heroes and forward) are chapter based.

The rest of the powers a either buff, debuff enemies or support/special.

So I dont see the need for a new school of psychic powers or removing/changing the current one. 

 

I cant really see how you need help with those you mention becouse…they already do what they are suposed to do..it all comes down to playstyle..






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