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Anyone else not play with the Dragon expansion?


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#1 kain7th

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:57 AM

I never liked that the dragon tokens negate the effects on the space they are placed on, and i feel it kind of makes the game unnecessarily longer. so i usually don't play with the Dragon expansion. i play with the characters it came with but none of the dragon cards or tokens.

 

Anyone else not play with it? or what do you think of the Dragon Expansion in general?



#2 Dam

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:50 AM

Skipped its purchase completely, didn't like what I was adding.


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#3 frogemoth

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:27 AM

Me too, found the rules too complicated.



#4 The_Warlock

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:44 AM

Dragon Expansion can be called an "epic level" expansion for Talisman. This means it's not an expansion you throw in in the mix, it's a set of cards and tokens you bring out when you want a completely different game, with different balances and power levels.

I enjoy every time I play with Dragons, especially in 2-player games the token mechanic works quite well. With more players it becomes time-consuming to place tokens every turn, but the box contains at least an alternative game ruling that makes things very different. But I don't play with Dragons every time, just a game out of 10.

However, if you don't want your games to differ too much from the standard Talisman, you should skip the Dragon or you might buy it just to set it aside. It's not a good idea to buy it only to gain its universal components, like the Characters (which are partially universal).



#5 Draii

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:39 PM

I try to include Dragon since I want to play with "all" at the same time. But I agree that the Dragon takes over and almost all the game is about dragon tokens, scales and dragon kings. Almost no Adventure cards are drawn either.

Will try a game with just the basic-game and Dragon (not including the outer regions) to see if it is fun on it's own.

Still trying to house-rule some way to include Dragon at a less distracting level. Using a dice at the end of each players turn to randomise if reaper, wherewolf moves, or a dragon token is drawn. Not fully satisfied with it yet though.

Possible that I will remove Dragon expansion in the future if I don't manage to include it in a staisfying way.
 



#6 adjogi

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 10:32 PM

I have to agree. My group played with the Dragon expansion twice. We all hated it. In my opinion it completely changed the game and not for the good. I still have the expansion but don't use any of it not even the charaters.

However, i have been thinking lately that i might want to pull the characters into our game and will likely try that at some point in the near future.

All other expansions - FANTASTIC.

Dragon Expansion - LOUSY.


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#7 Jake yet again

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 02:20 AM

You could try using the tower and have players draw from the Dragon decks only in the tower. Like you, I'm not convinced about the rest of the dragon expansion.


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#8 damzow

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:00 PM

actually we do play with it.

but in a completely different way of the original tiring mechanic..

what we did is first take out the dragon kings, tokens and all adventure cards that depends solely on the dragon king/tokens.

then we shuffled the rest of three decks together. in this situation, you only know the color of the first card (it makes it more interesting).

now, when to draw drgon cards you ask? good question :P

only in the outer and middle, when you roll a 5 or a 6 for your movment and land on a space which instract you to draw a crad you can choose to draw a dragon card instead of normal adventure card. incase that you are instructed to draw more then 1 card and chose to draw dragon cards, you must draw all of the cards from the dragon deck. you cant draw 1 card from the dragon deck and 1 from the normal deck . furthermore, you cant check the colors of the following cards.

the dragon deck is technically considered regionless (even though you can draw from it only in the outer and middle regions) so spells like divination, charecters skill such as Sage's

 



#9 chsic

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 01:27 AM

 

From our side:
- Players do not draw dragon tokens during their turn, but only if the final result of movement die is 1.
- The last dragon scale set determines the current dragon king.
- No gains Dragonscale in case of victory over an enemy from dragon decks.
- In the central region, ignore the instructions on the dragon scales.


#10 Calinor

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 02:00 PM

I couldn't not own it, but we haven't played with it yet because it changes the game too much. Like The_Warlock said, it's there if we want a completely different game. I do of course use the characters from it, except the Fire Wizard. His only real ability is just to go around killing other players (who would use that on an enemy?), and we don't generally play that way, so nobody wants to be him.



#11 Triple A

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:50 AM

We own it.

We use it every time.

 

But with heavily modified rules because we thought it changed the basic game too much.



#12 Bludgeon

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:38 AM

damzow said:

actually we do play with it.

but in a completely different way of the original tiring mechanic..

what we did is first take out the dragon kings, tokens and all adventure cards that depends solely on the dragon king/tokens.

then we shuffled the rest of three decks together. in this situation, you only know the color of the first card (it makes it more interesting).

I like that idea. We used to play with Dragon but highly modified. We tried few things but always something was off. And turns out it was the scales on the board. Somehow they don't feel right cluttering the board.

So the next time we play,  I'm gonna try a mix of house rules I tried with some new ones:

NEW RULES

- Like you propose, I'll mix all dragon cards into a single deck.

- When you land in middle region on a space with instructions to draw cards, first card you draw is from the dragon deck. That means that on most spaces you simply draw 1 dragon card, but in Oasis you draw 1 dragon and 1 adventure, and in Hidden Valey you draw 1 dragon and 2 adventure cards.

- Dragon scales are still in the game, but never go onto the board. Simply put them aside and whenever you kill an enemy from the dragon deck, gain 1 scale of corresponding color.

RULES WE ALREADY PLAYTESTED

- Dragon scales don't improve fighting skills. Instead, they can be spent in two ways;

--- A) spend one scale to protect yourself from dragon rage (this is the same as in original game) OR

--- B) spend one scale at the beginning of your turn and choose another player in the same region. That player suffers dragon rage of corresponding dragon lord. (this rule proved to be much fun :D )

- Once a player uses dragon scale in any way, it goes to its dragon lord.

- A dragon lord can have any number of scales, and the one with most scales is current king. At the end of game, if someone fights with the lord, the dragon adds +1 to its combat effectiveness for each scale on him.

- Inner realm from the original game and the dragon tower are two separate realms. You can choose which way you want to end the game. Your options are:

--- A) Go through the Portal of power into inner realm and get to the center, where you randomly draw from alternative endings cards, OR

--- B) Go thought the Chasm into the dragon tower. At the end you fight dragon king.

 

We also play with a bunch of other rules, but not many and they don't alter the game in any drastic way. For the sake of completion, they are:

- We use all expansions but play without the reaper figure (werewolf is enough)

- If you get into highland or dungeon, you can't turn back. You literally have to go one direction until the end. (this made those regions much more exciting)

- To advance Strenght or Craft by 1, you need a number of trophy points equal to your current S/C plus 1.

- At Crags and in Forest, if you roll 4 or 5, you draw 1 adventure card.

- If you finish a warlock's quest, you claim reward immediately and don't teleport to Warlock's Cave. The reward is a reward card, and a talisman if you don't already have it.

- We removed some cards from adventure deck, dragon decks, and spells. From adventure and spell decks we took out some cards that were in multiple copeis (like some gold bags, talismans, axe, mountain trails etc.). From dragon decks we took out cards that make no sense with our  house rules.



#13 Bludgeon

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:46 AM

Triple "A" said:

We own it.

We use it every time.

 

But with heavily modified rules because we thought it changed the basic game too much.

Explain what you changed. I'm looking for good ideas.



#14 Lord Kalten

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:45 PM

We love the dragon expansion.  The problem with Talisman is that you get players that like to coast along as king of the castle to the point where the game gets boring.  What I mean is that they've got so much power and so far ahead of eveyone else but the won't go to the crown of command to win the game but just plod along until time is up.

Very boring.

The dragons expansion eliminates this as each region is soon filled to the point that dragon rage is invoked almost every turn unless you start moving inwards (or to another section).

The only downside to the dragons expansion is the faffing around of tokens at the beginning.

We're altering the rules inhouse to speed this part up but still try and keep the effect that if you build up too many tokens it invokes dragon rage.

Just to let you know how bad these king coasters can get - one chap ended up with a follower that would heal one life per turn for one gold with an item that gave him one gold per turn if he had none.  Instant immunity from Crown of Command.  With fate rules in Talisman now, the likelihood of things like toad effects happening is greatly diminished.



#15 0beron

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:11 AM

I play a two player game and have every expansion. We've always used the Dragon set, from the beginning, but very recently since just before City came out, we created house rules for the Dragon set.

1) Dragon Scales are not pulled until after the first Dragon Enemy is encountered from the main Adventure Set. The Dragon Princes are not really watching the mortals below. Until the first Dragon is encountered.. From then on, we each draw the scale normally.

2) 5 is the threshold number to crown the first Prince. And five for each re-crowning thereafter. This itself limits the number of tokens on the board. When the First Prince is crowned, he is so angry that the player drawing that 5th scale must draw from his color deck. But not subsequent crownings. Just the first.

3) All other principles remain the same; sleep tokens, Dragon rage, etc.

  ** We are thinking of adding this idea with small caveats, to the City's operating principles.

Thus: No scales can be drawn when in the City until

 1) After the first scale can be placed on the main board's City space. This signifies that this Prince has 'claimed' the City. From that point on, scales can be drawn on Player turns in the City, but only the color scale of the "Claiming City" Dragon can be placed on City Spaces (and I'm considering the talked about 'no scales in the shops' rule some use).

 2) If for any normal reason, scales would be removed, or claimed from the City space, than the process begins again. No scales drawn if no Dragon has 'claimed' the City for its' own.

  ** I am considering trying this over Easter weekend with my co player, if she agrees, but I had another thought.

I like the idea of the Dragon Princes as NPCs and possibly battling each other as misplaced, medieval 'kaiju'. So… perhaps if the Dragon who has claimed the City is the King, any newly crowned King will fight him, one round, winner take all.  We would each take the Dragon's part and throw down. Whoever wins is/or remains the King (remove scales, lives, etc as normal. Final caveat: All players in the City must suffer the Winner's Dragon Rage.

 



#16 Triple A

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:25 PM

So these are my "Dragon" House Rules

 

1.  At game set-up, roll dice to determine which Dragon Lord is the acting Dragon King.  Place the three Dragon Lord cards in the center of the board, with the Dragon King on top.  Re-arrange the Dragon Lord cards as needed so that only the current Dragon King is visible.

2.  After rolling a 6 for movement, players randomly draw a Dragon Token with the following results: 

a.  Dragon Scales – Place the token on the square where the character is standing.  The Dragon Lord matching the colour of the token is crowned the new Dragon King (switch cards in centre of board if necessary).  If a Dragon Scale is already on the square, replace it with the new token.  However, if the new Dragon Scale is the same colour as the existing token, place the new token on the next available counter-clockwise square. 

b.  Dragon Rage – Suffer Rage effect of current Dragon King.

c.  Dragon Strike – Draw a card from the Dragon King's deck and encounter it immediately before continuing with your turn 

d.  Dragon Sleep – Place on any upturned Dragon enemy card (strength & craft are reduced by 3 for one encounter).

e.  Fate - Since tokens are same size, I've added 6 Fate tokens which players can obtain. 

3.  Once the above actions are complete, the character moves 6 spaces and continues with their turn as normal.

4.  Characters ending their movement on a square with a Dragon Scale may choose to ignore normal board instructions and draw a card from the corresponding Dragon Lord deck.  If they land on a square with a Dragon Scale that matches the current Dragon King (or it is Night), the player must draw from the Dragon deck.           

5.  Each Dragon Scale claimed by the player adds 1 to their character’s attack score against encounters with the corresponding Dragon Lord / minions, and can be discarded to avoid the effects of Dragon Rage.  

6.  Players must kill the Dragon King in order to seize the Crown of Command and begin casting the Command spell (strength and craft as per card, but the Dragon King only has one life).    



#17 Nioreh

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 09:38 AM

Same here, didnt like it at all, lots of over powered items and characters. Great with more really deadly enemies but all in all it completely messed the game up.. 

The only thing I appriciated was the minotaur and the conjurer, possibly the dragon king ending since it allows for players to ****** the victory from the player on coc :)

 

About the waste of lots of really deadly enemies, something we really think the game is missing, living with only one life is not really a big fear and I think it should be. One thing that hit me just now was that we just might just mix the dragon cards with the rest and maybe draw from the bottom :)



#18 0beron

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:16 AM

Well as I mentioned earlier and in other threads, we do play with the Dragon. And mostly like it. It adds a level of fear and unease to the game. My coplayer always chooses to not pick Dragon cards when she has the option. She is that terrified (LOL).

But we found that letting Dragons collect 5 scales to be crowned worked against us, if we also use the Dragon realm board, since the calculations of scales was now tipped towards more being on a Dragon's card/play area.

 

So we went back to three scales. We still wait until the first Dragon from regular Adventure/Dungeon/Highland, etc decks has been encountered. From that point, the Dragons are now looking down from their realm and the scales begin to be collected. Works for us.

Yes, Nioreh, the Dragon cards are fairly deadly. But some of the objects you find are pretty cool too.



#19 I. J. Thompson

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:17 PM

It's the one expansion I don't have, for the reasons you all cite. 

I'm tempted to get it for completeness's sake, and for the Characters (I've always loved Minotaurs, ever since Time Bandits), but I haven't felt prepared to drop the dough so far…



#20 Bolithio

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 03:41 PM

We play the dragon from time to time and mostly like it. The tile drawing is the only issue. It can be a pain, especially with more than 4 people - but if your group is paying attention its not that big of a deal. If you love Talisman, id say its a must have. I would also suggest not bogging the dragon game down with a bunch of expansions.






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