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2 core sets question


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#1 Euph3m1sm

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:05 PM

Hi,

With the Force packs becoming available is the 2 core sets option still valid as a starting point? I can see the point of having 2 copies of each objective set and I understand the mechanics of multiple copies of cards in deck building type games. But with the force pack expansions having 2 of each objective set in them will the need for 2 core sets slowly become redundant?

This is my first LCG so the input from veteran players of the system will be great. The core only just got released here in NZ and there is no word on The Desolation of Hoth as far as I can find.

Cheers.



#2 mandroid71

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:47 PM

At the local game store in my area, there is a Star Wars league that plays every wednesday that I just found out about last week.  I showed up to play in my 5th game I've ever played with just 1 basic core set to build my decks from.  Almost everyone else there had 2 core sets I noticed.  I got to play in about 4 games and I won 3 of them out of the 4.  The conventional wisdom is that you need 2 core sets to make good decks… but from what I found if you make a nice quick deck from just 1 core set, you can blow them out before they get their meta-game deck rolling.  Basically they all had gotten used to playing each other and were not prepared for the kind of decks I brought which were outside the 'meta' they had developed where everyone was playing the same basic kind of decks. 

Bottom line, you don't need 2 core decks now to play, and with the Hoth set out, it's even less of an issue only have 1 core set.  I think as time goes on, you'll soon be at a point where anyone that bought 2 core decks is going to be looking at the second box and going… man, that other set of cards is sort of a waste now.  Unless of course they like to have like 3 or 4 decks built at once for light and darkside.

 

 



#3 tofubones

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:58 PM

Whether you get 2 core sets comes down to how you plan on playing the game. If you just want to play casually or semi competitively then one core set and the force packs as they release will probably be fine.  If your goal is to win a regional event, then you'll need two core sets for the foreseeable future to field a truely competitive deck.   As all card games come down to consistency having 10 different objective sets will rarely be better than having between 5 and 7 objective sets.

In my meta most games go relatively fast simply because we play with few objective sets we get the cards we need quickly. Also units don't tend to last long so having a back up Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Darth Vadar, etc. is very important to keeping the pressure on. 



#4 cleardave

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:21 AM

It all comes down to options.  The Force Packs will bw giving you 2 of each Objective set, so if you want to run the new Navy Vader pod, that's 20% of your deck right there.  If you toss in the stuff from a single Core Set to pad it out to 10 Objectives total, you'll absolutely make a functional deck to use Navy Vader in, as an example.

But, as you may have guessed, having 2 copies of an Objective set will make your ability to draw into those money cards more consistant.  Forget the mains like Vader and Luke.  Think of the support cards like Rebel Assault and Force Choke.  If you ran a single Core, your Rebel deck could only have 2 Rebel Assaults in it.  2 Cores makes it 4.  I couldn't imagine running a Rebel Deck with less than 4 Rebel Assaults to pull your butt out of the fire at this point in the game.

Now, in the future, there could be similar Event cards that help you with clearing out Objectives, and maybe Rebel Assault becomes less useful in the long-run, but for now, if you're running Rebels and have an eye on winning a match, it's an auto-include in my opinion. 2 direct damage to an opposing Unit or Objective is just to good not to use, especially if you can drop it at an opportune moment.  So yes, I would stand by taking the maximum allowable, because I'd rather have 4 of those in a 50 card deck than 2.

Of course, it's all going to come down to card randomization, and sometimes probability just doesn't go your way.  I played a game this weekend with my Rebel deck where the dial was at 10, the Force was with Dark Side and I had just lost an epic Edge battle that vaporized my Home One.  I had 2 Objectives in my victory pile, and Emperor's Web was on it's last hit point.  I hadn't seen a Rebel Assault all game.

With about 20 cards left in my deck and an empty hand, I started my turn, knowing that it was going to be the last turn of the game, one way or another.  My Draw Phase kicked in, and I knew that 20% of that remaining deck was 4 Rebel Assault cards.  On the 5th card I drew, I got one.  I played it on the Draw Phase action window to take out Emperor's Web and close out the game in my favour.

Now, that was a good break for me, because if that card was two more cards down in the pile, I would have lost the game.  But that's the thng when you're playing any type of game with a luck-based component to it.  You're always going to have really amazing blowout games where you have these amazing dream hands at the start, and some games all your Vaders and Emperors are at the bottom of your deck.

The OP mentioned observing some success with a Single Core set at league night because everyone's decks were so "meta".  I would invite you to always scrutinize your wins as much as your losses.  I think we can all agree that when a deck tanks, it's obvious that you need to evalutate "what went wrong" and try and troubleshoot it.  Maybe you need to swap some pods out, or maybe you just made sub-optimal decisions at key points in the game.  Is it your deck that needs tweaking, or is it you, the player, that just needs more practice in using the deck correctly in the game?

When you win a few matches with your deck (or list in the case of wargaming, like X-Wing), it's easy to think you've got a good grasp on the deck and the game, but make no mistake, sometimes you won not because you're so great, but because your opponent was just so bad.  Whenever I play casually, and myself or my opponent mulligans a hand, we like to review that decision after the fact and discuss whether it was worth doing based on the cards.  Sometimes it's obvious, like you drew into 2 Vaders, 2 Palpatines, and 2 Devastators, with no "2" Resources in your starting Objectives, but somtimes it's really tough.

Getting back to the original topic, I'm sure, over time, the second Core Set will be less "valuable" to have, as more pods come out to flesh out the card pool, but that's like saying you shouldn't bother buying the Hoth cycle because in two years there's going to be other Force Packs that have their own tech that means you don't need to rely on Speeders and Hoth effects to win the day.  I got my two Core Sets for $30 bucks each, and each Force Pack will be discounted down to $11.  So I look at the 2 Cores I bought ($60) as being a full playset of 2 of each Objective in the "Core Cycle".  The Hoth Cycle is really "Wave 2" for me, and will actually cost about the same as the "Core Cycle" ($66).

The difference is that the Core cycle's cards are all available now, and can make a solid deck for 4 of the 6 Affiliations.  The Hoth Cycle is going to take 6 months to have all the cards trickle in, so your Hoth trait decks will be less than stellar until you have all the Objectives to take advantage of the Hoth effects contained within.  Ultimately, they will add more options for Navy, Jedi, Rebels, and Sith decks to work, with maybe a sprinkling of Scum and Smugglers, but for now, you'll have to wait a few months to get the full Hoth picture.

Additionally, we have the Edge of Darkness "big box" expansion coming in the summer.  This will provide Scum and Smugglers the much-needed injection of cards to make those Affiliation decks finally exist.  One thing to note, which I'm surprised hasn't blown up into an outcry, is that the Edge of Darkness box will only contain one of each Objective set, requiring 2 boxes to be purchased to get the doubles of everything, much like Core, although I don't think Edge will leave you with any "extra" cards you can't use.



#5 MasterJediAdam

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 05:56 AM

To the OP, it is really up to you. I personally like having second copies of the OSets that can have duplicates. In the future, it may be less important, but that will completely depend on whether or not FFG plans on having multiple personas of all the mains.


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#6 superradjoe

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:11 AM

If you plan to be a competitive player, it will always be your best option to have access to the most cards possible.



#7 Budgernaut

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 11:15 AM

Euph3m1sm said:

Hi,

With the Force packs becoming available is the 2 core sets option still valid as a starting point? I can see the point of having 2 copies of each objective set and I understand the mechanics of multiple copies of cards in deck building type games. But with the force pack expansions having 2 of each objective set in them will the need for 2 core sets slowly become redundant?

This is my first LCG so the input from veteran players of the system will be great. The core only just got released here in NZ and there is no word on The Desolation of Hoth as far as I can find.

Cheers.

Generally speaking, the core cards in LCGs are quite powerful and are useful as backbone cards in combination with future expansions. For example, in The Lord of the Rings, cards like Unexpected Courage (an attachment you exhaust to ready the attached character) or Steward of Gondor (an attachment you exhaust to add to resources to the attached hero's resource pool) are very powerful and are used in many decks.

If you wanted to run a Hoth-themed deck, I can see how you might want to get just one core and all the Hoth Cycle Force packs. If you were planning on competing and stickign with Hoth decks, you may not need more than one core (though we'll have to wait and see how Hoth decks actually do). For me, though, I don't like to play the same decks over and over again and I try not to play the same deck twice against the same opponent. For me, the two core sets are important so I have more variety in building decks.


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#8 Darthvegeta800

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 07:14 AM

So basically in the SW LCG system to have the full gamma of abilities the deluxe expansions will have to be bought 2x? Oo;

 



#9 DailyRich

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:44 AM

Darthvegeta800 said:

So basically in the SW LCG system to have the full gamma of abilities the deluxe expansions will have to be bought 2x? Oo;

Which will set you back $60 per expansion.  Compare that to the hundreds you'd likely spend chasing down cards from booster packs in a CCG expansion to stay competitive.



#10 just Logan

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:32 AM

I've rarely found that 2 delux sets were ever needed for any LCG- if you want to keep competitve for every affiliation all the time you need to buy everything as it is released is you only want to use 1 or affiliations only buy sets that have cards that you want. Over at CardGameDB there are articles about  what it would take for a new player to get a nationally competitive deck. it's 1 or 2 starters maybe the house expac and 3-6 CPs that's still only $100 to compete on a national level, now if you have a friend who plays and is cool with playing what you don't you can do "Board game style". and for 40 dollars more have 2-4 "competitive" decks.  You don't have to have ALL THE CARDS- and you dont have to buy anything that has nothing you can use. But for $60+$15/month +$10 every 6 months you can build any deck for any type that you could ever want. Now if you do play boardgame you could split that by 3 and each person could have a LS and DS deck  with every card, as long as those Scum and smugglers are willing to wait. (and really if some one likes a guy who got killed by a blind guy on accident how easy to placate are they?)






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