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Degrees of Success?


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#1 OomieCrusha

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 05:53 PM

In my group we have a couple different games in both Deathwatch and Black Crusade run by various GM's. There's been a little confusion in our group as to how degrees of success are computed. To make matters worse, some GM's and players see things one way, while the rest interpret the rules another.

From what I see, there are two relevant sections to this:

Black Crusade p. 35 (under Degrees of Success and Failure)"Measuring a character’s Degrees of Success or Failure is a rather straightforward process. Once the percentage roll for the test is made, compare the outcome of the roll with the modified Characteristic score. If the roll is lower than the Characteristic, the character has gained one Degree of Success. Furthermore, every 10 points by which the test succeeds grants yet another Degree of Success. Conversely, if the roll is higher than the Characteristic, the character has gained one Degree of Failure, and gains an additional Degree of Failure for every additional 10 points rolled over the Characteristic."

Black Crusade p.36 (under Core Mechanic) "… if the result is a natural “100” then the Test fails, even if the total modifiers made the Skill or Characteristic greater than 100."

By my interpretation, Degrees of Success are determined by the difference between the final computed percentage and what is rolled – even if the final percentage is over 100%. If so, and you somehow got a target percentage of 140% and rolled a 92, there would be 4 degrees of success and not 1. Our group played another system for a number of years where there was no way to get above 100%; I think that perception has carried over to this game, but it doesn’t look to be justified.



#2 Amroth

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:54 PM

Your logic stands to me as the rules state it's an extra degree of success for every 10 below and it doesn't cap this number at 100% so numbers above this should count with the already mentioned exception that a natural 100 is an automatic failure.

It makes sense too to have a total score over 100 means that your character has to have exceptional abilities in both the relevant trait and skill (a veritable killing machine with the example you gave above),



#3 Amroth

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:57 PM

Although now that I look at it wouldn't your example be 5 degrees of success? 1 for succeeding in the first place and then 4 more for being over 40 less than the target number?



#4 Asoral

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:32 PM

Amroth said:

Although now that I look at it wouldn't your example be 5 degrees of success? 1 for succeeding in the first place and then 4 more for being over 40 less than the target number?

Yes, that is the correct answer. What your group might have not realised coming from Deathwatch (and the other, earlier games) is that succeeding counts as one degree of success and failing counts as one.

To answer the original question, rolling a natural 100 always counts as a failure yet even if you roll 99 you can still get multiple degrees of success if your skill and modifiers are high enough (still 5 degrees in the earlier example of skill of 140).



#5 Cheddah

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:52 AM

This might be somewhat off topic but I don't understand the change between the old and new systems where you get a free degree of success or failure if you just pass or just fail.  Why is this nessisary? Now if you pass or fail a check by a few points (which happens often enough) it can make a huge difference in any outcome… say avoiding two shots instead of one for little investment in character advancement.

 

It's one of the more anoying rule changes in my opinion.



#6 Amroth

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:14 PM

I haven't really played the other systems too much so it's not something that affects me.

Just one thing to keep in mind though if you and your troupe don't like a rule there's no reason you can't change it and play under the rules you all agree on regardless of which system you are using.



#7 Darth Smeg

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:22 PM

Cheddah said:

This might be somewhat off topic but I don't understand the change between the old and new systems where you get a free degree of success or failure if you just pass or just fail.  Why is this nessisary?

It is precicely to simplify the handling of multiple hits and the Dodge/parry rules. 

In DH the rules were that you scored a hit on a basic sucess, and additional hits for Degrees of Success.

Now the rules are streamlined: you score hits pr degree of success, and dodge/parry works the same way.

You don't actually score any more hits, it's just the wording that has been simplified.

Now a Basic sucess = 1 Degree. You don't get an addidtional hit, you don't get a better result, it's just a different wording.


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#8 BrotharTearer

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:11 AM

It's also easier and more streamlined for scaling things like spells and abilities if you start at 1 DoS for a successful test (and more logical too!).

The free extra dodged/parried attack might seem a bit much, but when you factor in that swift/lightning attacks are capped at WS/BS bonuses (instead of 2 and 3 respectively as in Deathwatch, for example) it makes getting hit 6 times by a well-rolled lightning attack a bit more manageable.



#9 Darth Smeg

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 03:00 AM

Whaere do you get the free parry/Dodge from? There is no such thing. Please explain :)


Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#10 Cymbel

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:27 AM

I think what is meant that DoS for dodges/parries give you "extra dodges/paries" compared to previous rules where for melee attacks you dodged one attack out of a barrage (2 for Swift, 3 for lightning) and that was it, the others hit you. Now if the DoS for avoiding hits was the new one and the attacks styaed the same, it would make those talents pretty bad, but melee heretics have a weapon skill bonus of 4-6 normally, which means they have a max of that many hits, so it all balances out in the end (until warptime, but that also makes sense)






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