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Boosting past an obstacle


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#1 Carist

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 03:05 AM

Can I perform a boost action if when I boost my maneuver template overlaps an obstacle but my ship's base ends up safely on the other side?  

 

Performing a boost does not count as executing a maneuver. A ship cannot boost if this would cause its base to overlap with another ship's base or an obstacle token.  

 

It seems to me that this is allowed, and since this doesn't even count as a maneuver, I wouldn't even have to roll for damage.



#2 ziggy2000

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 08:16 PM

I'm pretty sure you are correct on all of this.



#3 Mu0n

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 04:12 AM

That's a weird limit scenario - I would have immediately assumed, intuitively, that boosting through an asteroid makes you suffer the same consequences as a regular maneuver, simply judging from the general spirit of movement handling in the game.

I'd really like this question to make it in the next FAQ revision.

 


X[5]  Y[4]  A[5]  B[5]  H[3]  E[2]  Z[6]   YT-1300[2] GR-75 CR90

F[7]  A[2]  I[6]  B[5]  P[2]  D[3]  FS-31[2]  λ[2]


#4 mrfroggies

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:52 AM

Carist said:

Can I perform a boost action if when I boost my maneuver template overlaps an obstacle but my ship's base ends up safely on the other side?  

 

Performing a boost does not count as executing a maneuver. A ship cannot boost if this would cause its base to overlap with another ship's base or an obstacle token.  

 

It seems to me that this is allowed, and since this doesn't even count as a maneuver, I wouldn't even have to roll for damage.

No you can't boost over or around an Obstacle, if your tempelate overlaps an obstacle.

 

Performing a boost does not count as executing a maneuver. A ship cannot boost if this would cause its base to overlap with another ship's base or an obstacle token.

You answered your own question, I think you just missed some of the details.

 

 


#5 dbmeboy

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:00 AM

mrfroggies said:

 

No you can't boost over or around an Obstacle, if your tempelate overlaps an obstacle.

 

Performing a boost does not count as executing a maneuver. A ship cannot boost if this would cause its base to overlap with another ship's base or an obstacle token.

You answered your own question, I think you just missed some of the details.

 

 

You showed that it cannot boost if the base overlaps with an obstacle, but the question was about the template, not the base.



#6 Carist

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:22 AM

dbmeboy said:

mrfroggies said:

 

 

No you can't boost over or around an Obstacle, if your tempelate overlaps an obstacle.

 

Performing a boost does not count as executing a maneuver. A ship cannot boost if this would cause its base to overlap with another ship's base or an obstacle token.

You answered your own question, I think you just missed some of the details.

 

 

 

 

You showed that it cannot boost if the base overlaps with an obstacle, but the question was about the template, not the base.

 

Right.  I ended up right in front of the obstacle, and with a boost I was able to move all the way through the obstacle, with the base ending up safely on the other side.  The base never touched the obstacle, only the maneuver template, and the boost action only mentions the base.



#7 mrfroggies

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:48 AM

I miss read the question.  I don't see any rule that would prevent this, and also I would say that you wouldn't have to roll dice for passing through the asteroid like you would do for a maneuver.  Wow boost just got even cooler.  I'm going to look to see if this was ever mentioned for Barrel roll, as it has the same language for use.



#8 paradox23

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:48 AM

Yeah, you can absolutely boost or barrel roll through an obstacle as long as your base doesn't end in an overlapping position.

As far as the intent of the obstacle damage rule, I'd love a little FAQ clarification… but:

  • Performing a boost does not count as executing a maneuver
  • When a ship executes a maneuver in which either the maneuver template or the ship’s base physically overlaps an obstacle token, follow these steps:

    1. Execute the maneuver as normal, but skip the “Perform Action” step.

    2. The player rolls one attack die. The ship then suffers any damage or critical damage rolled (see “Suffering Damage” on page 16).

    important: When overlapping an obstacle token, the ship stays where it lands (on top of the token). A ship that is overlapping an obstacle token during the Combat phase cannot attack any ship but may be targeted by other ships as normal.

 

It is clearly not a maneuver, and the obstacle rules specifically reference maneuvers.

There are two part that leave further questions.

  1. This is very counterintuitive.
  2. The obstacle rules are referenced in a section called Moving into and through Obstacles, not just maneuvering.

 

That said, unless then ever state otherwise, you have to play it as the OP suggested.



#9 mrfroggies

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 10:52 AM

Looking at the rules again, I still can't find anything to prevent this.  I have to say I don't like this.  I don't like that an action can short cut the obstacle rules.  I think it should apply to the template as well, but until FFG updates the FAQ for this, it looks like this works.



#10 dbmeboy

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 11:52 AM

Has anyone submitted this via the Rules Questions link yet?  I'll go ahead and do that now…



#11 Buhallin

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 05:47 PM

I hit on a related question tonight completely separately, concerning Proximity Mines.  It looks like a ship could Boost and land on a Prox Mine token without setting it off, at least until next turn and potentially not at all.

It does seem odd, but I also think it's clear until/unless we get a ruling that contradicts it.

 



#12 ziggy2000

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:52 PM

I think Buhallin is right on this as it currently stands, and I agree that it is odd and needs clarification.

Bomb tokens are not defined as "obstacles" and therefore do not impede a boost or barrel roll action. Since boost and barrel roll are not maneuvers, they do not trigger the detonation condition for Proximity Mines, which specifically states "When a ship executes a maneuver…". So if a ship boosts onto a Prox mine, it will not trigger the detonation until next turn, and only if it's movement template overlaps the token. In addition, if another ship moves through or overlaps the token first, it will trigger the detonation and take the damage before the ship that is already sitting on it. This could be a ship with a higher pilot skill on the same turn, or a lower pilot skill on the subsequent turn.

The really frustrating part of addressing a question like this is that you have to look at FIVE different sources to get an answer - the core rulebook, the Boost Action reference card, the Bomb Tokens reference card, the Proximity Mines upgrade card, and the Slave 1 expansion pack rulesheet. Add the FAQ in as well, to be sure there is nothing that contradicts the others. I think FFG could do a better job of having all the information you need in one place, rather than scattering it out and making it more difficult to find answers to intricate questions.

 



#13 paradox23

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:39 PM

Man… I'd really like a consolidated PDF of all the rules supplaments.



#14 Gullwind

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

Let's imagine that someone copied the text from the rules booklet and FAQ pdfs, and scanned in the text from the supplements and put it all together as a pdf. document. Would it violate any copyrights if he or she made it available to anyone? Hypothetically, of course.



#15 rowdyoctopus

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:42 PM

ziggy2000 said:

I think Buhallin is right on this as it currently stands, and I agree that it is odd and needs clarification.

Bomb tokens are not defined as "obstacles" and therefore do not impede a boost or barrel roll action. Since boost and barrel roll are not maneuvers, they do not trigger the detonation condition for Proximity Mines, which specifically states "When a ship executes a maneuver…". So if a ship boosts onto a Prox mine, it will not trigger the detonation until next turn, and only if it's movement template overlaps the token. In addition, if another ship moves through or overlaps the token first, it will trigger the detonation and take the damage before the ship that is already sitting on it. This could be a ship with a higher pilot skill on the same turn, or a lower pilot skill on the subsequent turn.

The really frustrating part of addressing a question like this is that you have to look at FIVE different sources to get an answer - the core rulebook, the Boost Action reference card, the Bomb Tokens reference card, the Proximity Mines upgrade card, and the Slave 1 expansion pack rulesheet. Add the FAQ in as well, to be sure there is nothing that contradicts the others. I think FFG could do a better job of having all the information you need in one place, rather than scattering it out and making it more difficult to find answers to intricate questions.

 

They are only into wave 2, and all those elements came out in wave 2, AFTER the rulebook.  I would guess future versions of the rulebook will have everything included.



#16 ziggy2000

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:34 PM

rowdyoctopus said:

 

ziggy2000 said:

 

I think Buhallin is right on this as it currently stands, and I agree that it is odd and needs clarification.

Bomb tokens are not defined as "obstacles" and therefore do not impede a boost or barrel roll action. Since boost and barrel roll are not maneuvers, they do not trigger the detonation condition for Proximity Mines, which specifically states "When a ship executes a maneuver…". So if a ship boosts onto a Prox mine, it will not trigger the detonation until next turn, and only if it's movement template overlaps the token. In addition, if another ship moves through or overlaps the token first, it will trigger the detonation and take the damage before the ship that is already sitting on it. This could be a ship with a higher pilot skill on the same turn, or a lower pilot skill on the subsequent turn.

The really frustrating part of addressing a question like this is that you have to look at FIVE different sources to get an answer - the core rulebook, the Boost Action reference card, the Bomb Tokens reference card, the Proximity Mines upgrade card, and the Slave 1 expansion pack rulesheet. Add the FAQ in as well, to be sure there is nothing that contradicts the others. I think FFG could do a better job of having all the information you need in one place, rather than scattering it out and making it more difficult to find answers to intricate questions.

 

 

 

They are only into wave 2, and all those elements came out in wave 2, AFTER the rulebook.  I would guess future versions of the rulebook will have everything included.

 

 

Even in Wave 1 there was information that was not included in the rulebook, and you need look no further than the Ion Token card to see it. The information on that card was NOT included in the rulebook, probably because the Y-Wing was not part of the core set. So you had to have three different sources to put the picture together. Now with wave 2 it is up to about seven different sources to get the full picture - Core rulebook, Ion token card, Bomb token card, Boost Action card, Falcon insert sheet, Slave insert sheet, and of course the cards themselves.

So far with FFG games I have never seen the original rulebook reissued to contain information from subsequent expansions. They always use the FAQ/Errata document to deal with changes and clarifications to the core ruleset, and additional rules and mechanics that are introduced into a game are always issued with insert sheets and/or cards in the expansions. I have NEVER seen a rewrite of the original rules. I really don't expect that to change, as much as I wish it would.

A digital version of a "codex" would be appreciated, but since it has not happened with such long-standing titles as A Game of Thrones LCG or the Lord of the Rings LCG (or any other FFG game to my knowledge), I won't be holding my breath.

 

 



#17 Bazinga

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:48 AM

Gullwind said:

Let's imagine that someone copied the text from the rules booklet and FAQ pdfs, and scanned in the text from the supplements and put it all together as a pdf. document. Would it violate any copyrights if he or she made it available to anyone? Hypothetically, of course.

 

maybe but only if you got caught and only caught selling it rather than making it free which is what should have hapaned anyway.  How can someone who   

does not have slave 1 know if there apponent is playing fare if the said rules for slave one have been left behind, how can one play fare if one has never read what slave one can do therfore how many arguements does this create?

 






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