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SW: Capital Ship Core Game? Ground-Based Combat Core Game?


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#1 Berethrof

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:37 AM

So I mentioned this in another topic, but would want to know others' opinions.

I may not be as versed in the Expanded Universe as many here, although I did play all those X-Wing, TIE Fighter PC games…

Does the universe have enough Capital Ship variations to warrant its own miniatures game, in its own scale? The only ones that come to mind are the Star Destroyers (and its variants), Corvettes and Frigates. Any other big ships?

Also, besides AT-STs, AT-ATs, Snow Speeders, Speeder Bikes and of course Infantry… what other ground-based vehicles are out there?

 



#2 gabriel69

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:01 AM

Turrets, transports, hover trains, prob droids.

Man, just play the Rougue Squdron 3D game for PC, you will see a lot of things for a ground assault star wars game.

 

As for Capttal Ship game, look at the old Starship battles from WotC.


 
 
"I encounter civilians like you all the time. You believe the Empire is continually plotting to do harm. Let me tell you, your view of the Empire is far too dramatic. The Empire is a government. It keeps billions of beings fed and clothed. Day after day, year after year, on thousands of worlds, people live their lives under Imperial rule without seeing a stormtrooper or hearing a TIE fighter scream overhead."
―Captain Thrawn

 


#3 Norsehound

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:25 AM

I wouldn't mind something more tactical for the capital ships. The WotC  game as I recall wasn't particularly impressive.



#4 COMPNOR

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:04 PM

Wotc's starship game was poorly executed…I was hoping for so much more… Id love to see FFG give it a go. Other than tweaking some rules for capitol ships I would be happy with them using the scale wotc used…you cant have a starwars space game without star destroyers

#5 I. J. Thompson

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:25 PM

Starship Battles fell between two stools because it tried to cover everything space combat in one game (great-looking minis, though!).

FFG has already earned much cred by keeping X-Wing a dogfight game, and that's why it's immersive and awesome (but y'all know that already). I'm sure they could do just as good with a capital-scale fleet game, but the big question is - do they want another space game competing with X-Wing right now? Also, there's the question of if people would get excited about a game where you can't 'be' Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader, etc. Still, I'm sure they're watching these boards and guaging interest, so threads like this are always a good thing. :)

As for a large-scale ground combat game, I don't think it's really been done (Assault on Hoth is the only one that comes to mind, which is fun, but very specifically the Battle of Hoth). I'd certainly buy it, and the capital-ship game. Especially if they both would work with the RPG. And yes, a quick flip through WEG's Imperial Sourcebook and Rebel Alliance Sourcebook provide a wealth of options here! :)


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#6 R2-EQ

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:04 PM

A Capital ship game would be fantastic!

If they were to do it, they should have little stands of figures for the snub fighters (6mm?) ala Epic Armageddon (which is the best GW game after Space Hulk imho).

I can see FFG come up with some good rules. There are lots of personalities like Ackbar and Piett for Capital ship commanders. Perhaps fighters could get buffs from having Luke or Vader in them, like command stands. Or maybe have the heroes be heroic and model single X-wings for each guy. I dunno, I trust FFGs track record with making rule systems and keeping the Star Wars flavour.

It would be fun to have a Capital ship game for sure!



#7 Cryix

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:53 PM

I haven't seen anyone post this here and it seems a little relevant to the conversation. 

Wizkids has apparently licensed the“The FlightPath™ maneuver system from xwing and is using it to make a star trek combat game. 

http://wizkidsgames....lix-board-game/

This might give us an idea of how MC80's and ISDs would do in a game. I don't see a galaxy class starship doing barrel rolls and such so presumably they've given some thought to what a dial might look like for large ships. 

 



#8 gabriel69

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:51 PM

Cryix said:

I haven't seen anyone post this here and it seems a little relevant to the conversation. 

Wizkids has apparently licensed the“The FlightPath™ maneuver system from xwing and is using it to make a star trek combat game. 

http://wizkidsgames....lix-board-game/

This might give us an idea of how MC80's and ISDs would do in a game. I don't see a galaxy class starship doing barrel rolls and such so presumably they've given some thought to what a dial might look like for large ships. 

 

Or they will make a crap game were captal ships move like figthers, its wizkids/neca they ****.

 

 

 


 
 
"I encounter civilians like you all the time. You believe the Empire is continually plotting to do harm. Let me tell you, your view of the Empire is far too dramatic. The Empire is a government. It keeps billions of beings fed and clothed. Day after day, year after year, on thousands of worlds, people live their lives under Imperial rule without seeing a stormtrooper or hearing a TIE fighter scream overhead."
―Captain Thrawn

 


#9 rowdyoctopus

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:24 AM

gabriel69 said:

Cryix said:

 

I haven't seen anyone post this here and it seems a little relevant to the conversation. 

Wizkids has apparently licensed the“The FlightPath™ maneuver system from xwing and is using it to make a star trek combat game. 

http://wizkidsgames....lix-board-game/

This might give us an idea of how MC80's and ISDs would do in a game. I don't see a galaxy class starship doing barrel rolls and such so presumably they've given some thought to what a dial might look like for large ships. 

 

 

 

Or they will make a crap game were captal ships move like figthers, its wizkids/neca they ****.

 

 

 

In an all capital ship game, and using the correct maneuvers, you can easliy use the flight path system and have them not feel like fighters.  They could even ditch k-turns and full 90 degree turns and then have 2-3 different angle banks if they really wanted to.



#10 gabriel69

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 09:04 AM

rowdyoctopus said:

gabriel69 said:

 

Cryix said:

 

I haven't seen anyone post this here and it seems a little relevant to the conversation. 

Wizkids has apparently licensed the“The FlightPath™ maneuver system from xwing and is using it to make a star trek combat game. 

http://wizkidsgames....lix-board-game/

This might give us an idea of how MC80's and ISDs would do in a game. I don't see a galaxy class starship doing barrel rolls and such so presumably they've given some thought to what a dial might look like for large ships. 

 

 

 

Or they will make a crap game were captal ships move like figthers, its wizkids/neca they ****.

 

 

 

 

 

In an all capital ship game, and using the correct maneuvers, you can easliy use the flight path system and have them not feel like fighters.  They could even ditch k-turns and full 90 degree turns and then have 2-3 different angle banks if they really wanted to.

 

Well, FFG can always take every single mistake wizkids/neca do and make it better for a star wars capital ship game


 
 
"I encounter civilians like you all the time. You believe the Empire is continually plotting to do harm. Let me tell you, your view of the Empire is far too dramatic. The Empire is a government. It keeps billions of beings fed and clothed. Day after day, year after year, on thousands of worlds, people live their lives under Imperial rule without seeing a stormtrooper or hearing a TIE fighter scream overhead."
―Captain Thrawn

 


#11 Vojvoda13

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 09:21 AM

Berethrof said:

…….Also, besides AT-STs, AT-ATs, Snow Speeders, Speeder Bikes and of course Infantry… what other ground-based vehicles are out there?

 

 

Well in some scenarios the Rebel Cart is noted along with the Tie Crawler. The Golan Tower and Atgar Laser are also in the mix. In the cutting room floor  imagery from the film there is also a rebel Selp propelled gun or laser I have only see a few clips of it but it looks like a ski patrol tracked skiff with a large cannon mounted in the rear. Oh and the Snow Troopers have the E-Web cannon which is somewhat large.  I could see a need for the Ion Cannon and Shield Generator for the scenario as well.

 

BUT as I have stated before I think a ground component of the X-Wing game is beyond the scope of the X-Wing system.

 

VR
James Mattes



#12 x13phantom

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:03 AM

The pc game star wars empire at war has a lot of things they could use for both ground and space.



#13 BigDogg

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:33 PM

A ground game would be fun in this scale…1/270 which is close to 6mm which I use for Civil War and Napoleonic now….. it would keep the vehicles relativity small but still be able to do some larger pieces also and keep it affordable

 

With the introduction of Attack Wing, or what ever its called, it looks like the idea of a capital ship game looks promising…..granted ships from the Star Trek universe seem more maneuverable than those from Star Wars…….. High speed turns seemed to be a staple of those ships….I doubt that the ships will be in scale considering the Defiant is only 100 meters long and some Romulian Warbirds are listed at over a 1000 meters…….plus Wizkids are going to want to reuse there existing sculpts……the largest Star Fleet ships are tiny in comparison to Star Wars capital ships……which according to the movies wallow around like lumbering giants that can't get out of there own way…….the only problem I really see with the Wizkids versions will be weather its a collectable game, which will seriously tick me off


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#14 Boomer_J

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:07 PM

BigDogg said:

the only problem I really see with the Wizkids versions will be weather its a collectable game, which will seriously tick me off

 

I’m a newbie to miniature gaming so forgive me for this question if it’s a dumb one. But why would a collectable game be bad? Because lack of support for the game down the road?     



#15 rowdyoctopus

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:39 PM

Collectible is code word for blind purchases.  There is a set of figures, usually with a rarity scheme, but you buy boosters and you don't know what is inside.  Since you are not 100% likely to get exactly what you want, you end up buying more in an attempt to get the figures you do want.

However, WizKids has already released SKU descriptions to Alliance.  There will be a core set with 3 ships (1 Federation, 1 Klingon, and 1 Romulan) and then there will be 6 individual, non-blind ships, 2 each from the aforementioned races.  The structure is identical to X-Wing.  $40 for the core set and $15 for each single ship expansion.  Each expansion will have a generic ship that looks identical to a named ship and will have cards that let you play it as the actual ship or generic, sort of like the Millenium Falcon and Firespray.  The exact details are not known though.



#16 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:50 PM

Boomer_J said:

BigDogg said:

 

the only problem I really see with the Wizkids versions will be weather its a collectable game, which will seriously tick me off

 

 

 

I’m a newbie to miniature gaming so forgive me for this question if it’s a dumb one. But why would a collectable game be bad? Because lack of support for the game down the road?     

For me, one of the attractive things about X-wing is that if I want to be able to run a particular ship in my list, I purchase that ship. In (e.g.) Magic, if I want to run a particular card in a deck, I purchase the chance of finding that card--or I pay whatever inflated price the after-market retailers are charging. That's either a frustrating prospect or an expensive one, however you look at it, and I dislike the dilemma.

There are also some implications for game design, which people may or may not care for. Again, in X-wing, the game is balanced around the point cost of each ship. Magic has a in-game cost to play each card, but it also has a rarity mechanism (i.e., rare cards are generally more powerful than uncommon cards of the same cost). 

It's moot in this case, though, because WizKids confirmed on Facebook (IIRC) that the new Star Trek game wasn't going to be a "collectible" blind-buy-style game.

(Ninja'ed. Sorry!)



#17 Boomer_J

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:03 PM

 

Thanks for the explanations.



#18 Karon

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:17 PM

I would love a capital ship game. I love those most of all. The wotc one had good ship but the game was almost unplayable imho. I would love to see it done similar to xWing even. Fleet battles or something. Could use tokens to represent fighters and the xwing game for the dogfights if people really wanted to. (Seen this idea on this forum before so it isn't mine) heck that is the kind of announcement I would jump onto a kickstarter for. Well built fleet star wars mini game to scale. /slap with cash. Take my money

#19 B-Wing Ace

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 04:59 AM

Karon said:

I would love a capital ship game. I love those most of all. The wotc one had good ship but the game was almost unplayable imho. I would love to see it done similar to xWing even. Fleet battles or something. Could use tokens to represent fighters and the xwing game for the dogfights if people really wanted to. (Seen this idea on this forum before so it isn't mine) heck that is the kind of announcement I would jump onto a kickstarter for. Well built fleet star wars mini game to scale. /slap with cash. Take my money

Same here. Nice mention of kickstarter! There is currently an age of sail minis game there that comes out at gencon. The same system could be applied to star wars, And the aforementioned star trek game with the same movement system as wings of glory or x-wing minis. There are a few other strategic/tactical space combat game systems out there that could be applied to the star wars universe such as firestorm armada for free movement.

I think if they are going to do an epic batlte game that includes the capital ships and to some abstract degree fighters and small craft, there are many ways to go about doing it- both good and bad. For bad, see star wars battles. For good, well, we haven't seen one yet surprisingly. To make it work, they need to get the movement and attack/defense mechanics correct. And perhaps a fleet-build element where units are costed correctly so there is different strategy to bringing different types of ships to the battle. 

The Axis and Allies Naval Minis game has a great mechanic for WWII naval warfare that has all the right components for a well balanced game that includes capital and small ships. You could apply the star wars universe as a skin on the units in this game and it would sell very well. 






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