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Battle for the Shield Islands and Declaring Defenders/ attackers


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#1 mardukch

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:35 AM

Hi,

 

Quick question about Battle for theShield Islands:

 

Text: 
Epic Battle Plot: After the dominance phase this round there is an epic phase during which each player may initiate a single challenge of his choice. Characters with 1 or more  enhancements may be declared as attacker or defenders while kneeling. Instead of normal claim, the winner of each challenge may choose and take control of a location controlled by the loosing opponent. (Place this card next to your plot deck untile the end of this epic phase.)

 

Does this refer to any declaration or just the ones of the framework? And by that I mean, can knelt characters with a naval enhancement be declared using naval enhancement or only during the normal declaration of attackers/ defenders?



#2 -Istaril

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 04:01 AM

It only refers to the regular framework. If it affected jumping them in, it would have to say "may be declared as (naval) attackers/defenders, even while kneeling"



#3 Khudzlin

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:54 PM

Instead of normal claim, the winner of each challenge may choose and take control of a location controlled by the loosing opponent.

What is the choice here (ignoring the obvious typo)?

  1. Take control of a location or do nothing
  2. Take control of a location or apply normal claim (assuming the attacker wins)


#4 stormwolf27

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:59 PM

Khudzlin said:

Instead of normal claim, the winner of each challenge may choose and take control of a location controlled by the loosing opponent.

What is the choice here (ignoring the obvious typo)?

  1. Take control of a location or do nothing
  2. Take control of a location or apply normal claim (assuming the attacker wins)

That's definitely a good question, and probably a RAW vs. RAI distinction. Based off the wording, I would think there is the small possibility it is 2, but, based on cards printed in the past, I would more likely lean towards 1. I'm honestly not sure.


"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka


#5 ktom

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:11 AM

It is "Choice #1." By stating the "instead of normal claim" first in describing the effect, the effect is changing the way that claim resolves whether you want it to or not - although making "no location" a viable choice in resolving that claim.

In AGoT templating, Choice #2 would be: "The winner of each challenge may choose and take control of a location controlled by the losing opponent instead of normal claim."

 

BTW: Anyone else notice how this can nerf HoD?



#6 Khudzlin

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:28 AM

Thanks for the answer, Ktom. As for HoD, yes we noticed that

  1. the HoD location is not immune to claim, so it can be taken with this epic battle
  2. it will keep its immunity to opponents' non-plot card effects, but from the point of view of its new controller


#7 radiskull

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 06:27 AM

Not a rules comment here:

LOOSING? Seriously??  That's probably my biggest spelling-related pet-peeve.

Ugh.

If I were a game designer AND an held an English degree, I'd be absolutely mortified.



#8 mdc273

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 09:07 AM

ktom said:

It is "Choice #1." By stating the "instead of normal claim" first in describing the effect, the effect is changing the way that claim resolves whether you want it to or not - although making "no location" a viable choice in resolving that claim.

In AGoT templating, Choice #2 would be: "The winner of each challenge may choose and take control of a location controlled by the losing opponent instead of normal claim."

 

BTW: Anyone else notice how this can nerf HoD?

I couldn't help myself…

C'mon, man!



#9 ktom

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:30 PM

Considering how many people can't understand Cat's vulnerability when Pyat Pree attacks alone, it's a fair question.



#10 Khudzlin

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:08 PM

To be honest, the question did come up on the French forum (the "we" in my post is not meant to include all AGoT players, mostly the French ones - since they are the ones I talk with the most). However, given Pyat Pree's precedent, those of us considered more knowledgeable in the rules(this would include Bolzano) promptly came to this conclusion and pointed it out.

@Radiskull: be thankful you haven't seen the French version of Storm Dancer (the text is not even grammatically correct and it makes less sense than google translate).



#11 snowfrost

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:04 PM

if I win the challenge as def during this epic phase,nothing will happened,am I right?



#12 ktom

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:38 PM

Correct. Taking control of the location happens "instead of normal claim." That means "claim" has to initiate in order for the replacement to take place (and the location to change hands). If the defender wins the challenge, "claim," normal or otherwise, does not initiate successfully. So, if the defender wins the challenge in this Epic phase, there is no claim to resolve, so no locations to steal.



#13 thorin_81

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 09:11 PM

Is the HoD location, stealed via this epic battle, still immune to non plot card effects?



#14 stormwolf27

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 09:17 PM

thorin_81 said:

Is the HoD location, stealed via this epic battle, still immune to non plot card effects?

There's no reason to think not. It hasn't left play. Just switched sides through claim.


"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka


#15 Khudzlin

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 12:56 AM

Note that the HoD location is immune to opponents' non-plot card effects. And the opponent is from the location's point of view (the immunity is text it gains), so the opponent changes.






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