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TIE Bomber and B-wing roles?


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#1 tinnitus

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:36 PM

It's pretty much "agreed" that the next wave is going to be the Bomber and the B, but I am wondering what will they DO once they reach combat. I don't immediately see what attack ships can add to a dogfight unless they are there to perform a mission, like destroying a big target.

Is there a place in x-wing for this kind of ships? Are they there only to destroy the middle sized ships or are they capable of dogfighting? Or will there be more missions of the destroy designated target to justify their entry to the game? Maybe a combination? What are your thoughts on this?



#2 Boomer_J

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:54 PM

 

I’m currently working on a BIG target for a squad or two of TIE BOMBERS.

 



#3 DingusFett

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 03:52 AM

I can see the TIE Bomber being similar to the Y-Wing, slower than the other TIEs and capable of taking 2 missiles.

Not so sure about the B-Wing. Maybe closer to an X-WIng that can take two torpedos instead of an Astromech?

Maybe stats on the B-Wing like Attack: 2, Agility: 3, Hull: 3, Shield: 2, Options: 2 Torpedos, Ion Turret



#4 tinnitus

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:27 AM

DingusFett said:

I can see the TIE Bomber being similar to the Y-Wing, slower than the other TIEs and capable of taking 2 missiles.

Not so sure about the B-Wing. Maybe closer to an X-WIng that can take two torpedos instead of an Astromech?

Maybe stats on the B-Wing like Attack: 2, Agility: 3, Hull: 3, Shield: 2, Options: 2 Torpedos, Ion Turret

Most people (including me) tend to think that these ships are only variants of the Y-wing. If this is the case, what do they add to the game besides a new face? My hunch is not so much. So IF these two ships make up wave 3, what do you think FFG have come up with to expand the gameplay? Missions with hard to kill targets and vulnerable attack ships, or two ships with fighter capabililties? As a game developer you often decide what role your piece is supposed to fit before you come up whith statlines and maneuver template, I'm interested how FFG intend us to use these two ships.

 



#5 Mosedeke

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 07:51 AM

I would think FFG would need to add more rules for "bomber" or "gunboat" style craft.  Wave 2 gave boost to the interceptors, Wave 3 could give 'strafing run' or something similar.  Letting the ships fire a secondary weapon as an action if they made a green (or straight?) movement, and then giving capacity for 4 missiles for the Bomber or an ion cannon and a couple torpedos to the B-Wing could make them useful hammers that wouldn't be too easy to use.  You'd still need a target lock for the missiles, so either a squad would have to be built around them to give locks/actions (Lando, Dutch, Squad Leader, etc), or they would be a centerpiece that would need to be escorted/protected for a couple turns before they get their payload off.  If costed properly they could add a new dynamic, and possibly be a strong counter to the medium sized ships.

If it was just a Y-Wing with more missiles and nothing fancy or different I probably wouldn't even bother.  I have problems enough as it is getting one shot off from Proton Torpedos and having it matter, let alone 2 or 3.



#6 Norsehound

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:31 AM

The TIE Bomber is going to be the Proton Torpedo carrier for the Empire, just as A-Wings introduced missiles to the Rebels. I'd also wager a guess that TIE bombers will carry the BOMB upgrade slot so they can also deploy proxemity mines, seismic charges, and perhaps Proton Bombs as a new direct-fire attack ability with the bomb upgrade slot. Alternatively we could see new Torpedo upgrades come out of the TIE bomber. Bombers with the Bomb upgrade might introduce the tactic of locking off large parts of the battlefield by dropping mines while closing on the enemy. I'm also personally wishing for the ability to give Bombers concussion missiles as well, making them the ultimate ordinance carriers even if they're only hull 3-5.

The B-Wing will also be another Torpedo carrier but probably give the CANNON upgrade to the Rebels, so it can carry a cannon slot (unless FFG wants to limit this only to large ships?). I think the B-Wing will maximize on Firewpower and defense but be very limited on dodge. The B-Wing may introduce a new cannon type, the Autoblaster, to flesh out more cannon types. Might also come with an Ion cannon too.



#7 Delta Echo

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:26 AM

Mosedeke said:

I would think FFG would need to add more rules for "bomber" or "gunboat" style craft.  Wave 2 gave boost to the interceptors, Wave 3 could give 'strafing run' or something similar.  Letting the ships fire a secondary weapon as an action if they made a green (or straight?) movement, and then giving capacity for 4 missiles for the Bomber or an ion cannon and a couple torpedos to the B-Wing could make them useful hammers that wouldn't be too easy to use.  You'd still need a target lock for the missiles, so either a squad would have to be built around them to give locks/actions (Lando, Dutch, Squad Leader, etc), or they would be a centerpiece that would need to be escorted/protected for a couple turns before they get their payload off.  If costed properly they could add a new dynamic, and possibly be a strong counter to the medium sized ships.

If it was just a Y-Wing with more missiles and nothing fancy or different I probably wouldn't even bother.  I have problems enough as it is getting one shot off from Proton Torpedos and having it matter, let alone 2 or 3.

I agree with this concept a lot.

Here is what i'm envisioning for stats:

B-Wing- Standard base size

Maneuver Dial: Hybrid cross between a Firespray 31 and a Y-wing (4 ahead is a white manuver, like the FS, but turns like a Y-wing) 

Stats I'm thinking are around 3 / 1 / 4 / 5…

Action Bar: Focus & Target Lock

Base Pilot Skill of 3 @ 24 points (+/- 2 points) with named Elite Pilots escalating in Pilot Skill and Point Cost.

Upgrade Bar: Proton Torps x 2, Missiles x 2, Ion Cannon, Heavy Laser Canon, and Crew Member *(yeah, think about Weapons Engineer here).

Something allowing a secondary weapon shot as an action if a green or straight manuver is made (as per above)… Maybe an Advanced Targeting / Fire control computer…?  B-wings have Nav/Fire Control/Sensor systems intended for small Capital Class ships according to Wookieepedia.

The tough call is whether or not its stats and size justify a Large Ship Base, but after comparing sizes of the B-wing and other ships, Ive found its not that much bigger than a Y-Wing, so I would think it would go on a "Standard" Ship Base in an upright configuration with S-Foils deployed.

TIE Bomber- Standard base size

Maneuver Dial: Like a Y-Wing but 4 straight ahead is a white manuver instead of red.

Stats: 2 / 2 / 4 / 0

Action Bar of: Focus, Target Lock, Evade.

Base Pilot Skill of 2 @ 19 Points (+/- 2 points), with named Elite Pilots escalating in Pilot Skill and Point Cost.

Upgrade Bar:  Proton Torps x 2, Missiles x 2, Bomb x 2.

Special… Something allowing a single Bomb to be deployed as an action if a straight manuver is made… as above, but only straight manuvers.

 

I'm really envisioning both ships as Ordanance Carriers with lots of flexability on weapon upgrades and load out.  The B-wing is able to target enemy ships better, but still suffering from very poor manuverability, and the Tie Bomber is really a slightly more resiliant, but less manouverable TIE with an unsurpassed bombing abilities.  With the use of a special ability of some sort allowing a secondary weapon shot or dropping a bomb, I think these two ships would really add to the game without making existing ships obsolete (exception being the Y-wing that the B-Wing was intended to replace anyway, but the Y-Wing would still retains the 360 Ion turret and lower cost so it would still have a place as a support ship).

Comments?

 

 



#8 a4rino

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:08 PM

Mosedeke said:

I would think FFG would need to add more rules for "bomber" or "gunboat" style craft.  Wave 2 gave boost to the interceptors, Wave 3 could give 'strafing run' or something similar.  Letting the ships fire a secondary weapon as an action if they made a green (or straight?) movement, and then giving capacity for 4 missiles for the Bomber or an ion cannon and a couple torpedos to the B-Wing could make them useful hammers that wouldn't be too easy to use.  You'd still need a target lock for the missiles, so either a squad would have to be built around them to give locks/actions (Lando, Dutch, Squad Leader, etc), or they would be a centerpiece that would need to be escorted/protected for a couple turns before they get their payload off.  If costed properly they could add a new dynamic, and possibly be a strong counter to the medium sized ships.

If it was just a Y-Wing with more missiles and nothing fancy or different I probably wouldn't even bother.  I have problems enough as it is getting one shot off from Proton Torpedos and having it matter, let alone 2 or 3.

 

These are some excellent ideas in here. I agree that they will have to introduce some new mechanics if they are to make these ships interesting. I like the idea of the 'strafing run.' This would surely lead to some really great missions/scenarios.



#9 Redbranch

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:13 PM

I would prefer the B-Wing was horizontal on its base. I don't care for the way it looks standing up. What do the rest of you think?



#10 CPTMcMurphy

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:42 PM

I suspect that the B-wing will be a bulky ship who's shields and hull put it between a Y-wing and a YT-1300.  It will have the attack profile of the X-wing, Torpedo capasity of a Y-wing, and be slow as dirt.  But, it will also be able to take a cannon upgrade.

The Tie Bomber will probably be the same speed as the Y-wing but will have more hull points then your average Tie.  Besides being able to take more missiles then the Tie Advance, it will also be able to take a bomb upgrade.

I am hesitant to speculate on exact numbers because I could see how some things could go left or right around a set number.  For example imagine the hull and shields for our theoretical B-wing.  It could be 6 Hull/4 Shield, 5 Hull/5 Shield, or 4 Hull/6 Shield.  That is based on the B-wing being able to take 10 hits, which it may not.  We willl just have to wait and see what FFG has in store for us.



#11 apegod

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:48 PM

I would like to see the B-wing rotate on the base or at least be able to go on base in horizontal or vertical orientation.   I would like to see Tie Bombers capable of deploying mind fields in space or bombing ground targets.



#12 PRINCEOFDANKNESS

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:22 PM

I'm interested to see if the Bomber will be able to Barrel Roll like the rest of the TIEs.



#13 Boomer_J

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:21 PM

 

I did a thread some time back about boarding and support craft and how they could reload the bombers. This would give the fighters something to defend or attack. Now all we need is a big target for those bombers. 

 

Just a thought.



#14 tinnitus

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:15 PM

Mosedeke said:

I would think FFG would need to add more rules for "bomber" or "gunboat" style craft.  Wave 2 gave boost to the interceptors, Wave 3 could give 'strafing run' or something similar.  Letting the ships fire a secondary weapon as an action if they made a green (or straight?) movement, and then giving capacity for 4 missiles for the Bomber or an ion cannon and a couple torpedos to the B-Wing could make them useful hammers that wouldn't be too easy to use.  You'd still need a target lock for the missiles, so either a squad would have to be built around them to give locks/actions (Lando, Dutch, Squad Leader, etc), or they would be a centerpiece that would need to be escorted/protected for a couple turns before they get their payload off.  If costed properly they could add a new dynamic, and possibly be a strong counter to the medium sized ships.

If it was just a Y-Wing with more missiles and nothing fancy or different I probably wouldn't even bother.  I have problems enough as it is getting one shot off from Proton Torpedos and having it matter, let alone 2 or 3.

These are great ideas. A strafing run mission (or a coulple) would add variety to the game as well as a place for this kind of ships. It would also add a new use for the Y-wing fitted with double torpedoes. Lastly it will be most interesting to find out what ships are the best escorts, since it will be a key part of the mission to make sure the bombers reach their target.

 

Boomer_J said:

 

I did a thread some time back about boarding and support craft and how they could reload the bombers. This would give the fighters something to defend or attack. Now all we need is a big target for those bombers. 

 

 

This would be a fine example of a strafing mission in two ways - the reloaded bombers hitting their target for the second (or third) time, and the defending bombers trying to take out the support craft.

 

If FFG decides to follow this path I surely look forward to playing with these ships!



#15 Herkimer

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 04:52 AM

Utimately the bomber and B-wing roles are dependant on the direction of the game. As of yet, the game is primarily dog-fighting with the scenarios being somewhat weak. Assuming FF does go the route the majority seem to think, there will likely be some sort of objective based missions around the same time. Bombers just aren't that useful in a dogfight unless the missle weapons really make up for it. You can't drop the points for them because they are specific role fillers. In the furball not so good, but awesome against capitol ships, installations, and such.

A futher argument for these types of add-ins to the game is stagnation. The 100 point 1 on 1 dogfight is fun, for now. What you will likely see is the tuning of lists to where there will be 4 or 5 for each side with a tiny bit of variation. The same thing happens to any game when you don't provide some sort of objective based scenario and it is just a 'see how many points you can kill' game.

Besides, if FF doesn't, any number of fans will to keep the game fresh and moving forward. My group already is working on those so we have a decent aount available for the convention and tournament games we are going to run this year.



#16 SteveSpikes

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:01 AM

Redbranch said:

I would prefer the B-Wing was horizontal on its base. I don't care for the way it looks standing up. What do the rest of you think?

I think the B-wing could be set at a 45-degree angle, with the cockpit at the upper-left, would be alright to me.



#17 Parakitor

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:06 AM

Norsehound said:

The TIE Bomber is going to be the Proton Torpedo carrier for the Empire, just as A-Wings introduced missiles to the Rebels. I'd also wager a guess that TIE bombers will carry the BOMB upgrade slot so they can also deploy proxemity mines, seismic charges, and perhaps Proton Bombs as a new direct-fire attack ability with the bomb upgrade slot. Alternatively we could see new Torpedo upgrades come out of the TIE bomber. Bombers with the Bomb upgrade might introduce the tactic of locking off large parts of the battlefield by dropping mines while closing on the enemy. I'm also personally wishing for the ability to give Bombers concussion missiles as well, making them the ultimate ordinance carriers even if they're only hull 3-5.

The B-Wing will also be another Torpedo carrier but probably give the CANNON upgrade to the Rebels, so it can carry a cannon slot (unless FFG wants to limit this only to large ships?). I think the B-Wing will maximize on Firewpower and defense but be very limited on dodge. The B-Wing may introduce a new cannon type, the Autoblaster, to flesh out more cannon types. Might also come with an Ion cannon too.

My thoughts exactly. The TIE bomber has to carry bombs (that's a no-brainer) or perhaps mines, and I think after seeing that anime styled TIE fighter video, we all want a TIE bomber to be able to carry missiles. But I think also agree that the TIE bomber is a great way to get Proton Torpedoes into Imperial squads. Maybe we'll see Heavy Rockets that fit into the "torpedo" slot.

I agree that the B-wing ought to have access to the Slave I expansion's Ion Cannon, so why not the Heavy Laser Cannon, and a new variety of cannon?

All excellent thoughts, Norsehound!


"That starship won't fly, Bastila."


#18 DailyRich

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:16 AM

Delta Echo said:

Mosedeke said:

TIE Bomber- Standard base size

Maneuver Dial: Like a Y-Wing but 4 straight ahead is a white manuver instead of red.

Stats: 2 / 2 / 4 / 0

You don't think it's going to have shields at all?  I'd think they'd want a little protection for all that ordinance sitting inside of it.



#19 dbmeboy

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:26 AM

DailyRich said:

Delta Echo said:

 

Mosedeke said:

TIE Bomber- Standard base size

Maneuver Dial: Like a Y-Wing but 4 straight ahead is a white manuver instead of red.

Stats: 2 / 2 / 4 / 0

 

 

You don't think it's going to have shields at all?  I'd think they'd want a little protection for all that ordinance sitting inside of it.

You'd think so, but per the Star Wars canon the TIE bomber does not have shields.



#20 Kaxel Vofer

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:56 AM

   I think that the only TIE with shields is the TIE Advanced, others don't have shileds, in the history, the Empire don't think it has to be necesary for the pilots, the ships even has Life support, greettings.


"That the reward for you, don´t be so high".


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