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proximity mine rules


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#1 swampthing

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:22 AM

I am need of some clarification to settle an argument between me and my buddies so I will submit a few scenarios to make it easy and hopefully you can give me yes or no answers, here goes.

lets assume a Firespray dropped the mine and the next ship to move is an x-wing

 

 A low skilled pilot has just moved and dropped a proximity mine as an action:     Is the mine triggered when…….?

 

Scenario A) The x-wing moves and his movement template never touches the mine template but the base of the ship stand does partially travel over it and ends still partially overlapping it.

 

Scenario B) Same as above but the ship ends its movement without its base overlapping.

 

Scenario C) Same as scenario A but the ship starts out allready touching the mine template, obviously the only way for this to happen is if only the back of the ship is already on the template.

 

Scenario D) the x-wing starts its movement completely on top of the mine template but finishes its movement completely off the template but in order to do so its movement template is laid on top of the mine template.

 

Scenario E) Same as scenario D except only the front of the x-wing starts on top of the mine template.

 

sorry for so many scenarios but wanted to cover all bases and confusion to clear it up once and for all.

 

And just because i'm feeling lazy to check at this moment but after triggering a mine the ship  rolls damage dice, continues it's movement but recieves no action at the end. correct?

thank you all

 

 



#2 Bazinga

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:08 AM

swampthing said:

I am need of some clarification to settle an argument between me and my buddies so I will submit a few scenarios to make it easy and hopefully you can give me yes or no answers, here goes.

lets assume a Firespray dropped the mine and the next ship to move is an x-wing

 

 A low skilled pilot has just moved and dropped a proximity mine as an action:     Is the mine triggered when…….?

 

Scenario A) The x-wing moves and his movement template never touches the mine template but the base of the ship stand does partially travel over it and ends still partially overlapping it.

 

Scenario B) Same as above but the ship ends its movement without its base overlapping.

 

Scenario C) Same as scenario A but the ship starts out allready touching the mine template, obviously the only way for this to happen is if only the back of the ship is already on the template.

 

Scenario D) the x-wing starts its movement completely on top of the mine template but finishes its movement completely off the template but in order to do so its movement template is laid on top of the mine template.

 

Scenario E) Same as scenario D except only the front of the x-wing starts on top of the mine template.

 

sorry for so many scenarios but wanted to cover all bases and confusion to clear it up once and for all.

 

And just because i'm feeling lazy to check at this moment but after triggering a mine the ship  rolls damage dice, continues it's movement but recieves no action at the end. correct?

thank you all

 

 

 

call me old fashion but a mine detentates on contact? therefore no matter what contact it was the ship gets hit.  its fifty fifty if it gets hit, with those odds Id be in vegus.

 Although droop it near an astroid and the x wing flyes over both now thats a scenerio.

 



#3 Gullwind

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:56 AM

OK. The card says that any ship whose base or maneuver token overlap the bomb token detonate it, so here are the answers for your scenarios.

A: The base overlaps the token, so the bomb detonates.

B: The base overlaps the token during the movement, so I would say the bomb detonates. I say this because the bomb card says WHEN a ship executes a maneuver… If it only referred to the position after the movement, it would say AFTER, not WHEN. I believe this is supported by the fact that the maneuver template can also set off the bomb.

C: The base is overlapping the bomb token at the beginning of the move, and the card does not specify any point where this does not set off the bomb, so I believe it would set off the bomb.

D: Same answer as C.

E: Same answer as C as well.

Basically, once the bomb token is laid, any ship that touches it at any point after that will set it off.

I hope this helps, and I am certainly open to someone else's interpretation if they think I'm wrong.



#4 swampthing

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 06:11 AM

Thank you so far. To be honest I was getting confused because people on forums and us at home were arguing using rules for obstacles which complicated things.

I basically agree with both of you although I did think Scenario C where the ship only has its back end on the template and so flies away from it might result in not setting it off.

Also my friends were putting forward the argument for Scenario E, that it is all happening in real time and as such a higher skill pilot is not penalised for moving second and is able to avoid the mine as they would have moved from that location. But as I say I'm in full agreement apart from C.

But i shall use this post as my response and play that they all cause explosions unless otherwise corrected in the future.



#5 dbmeboy

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:02 AM

swampthing said:

I am need of some clarification to settle an argument between me and my buddies so I will submit a few scenarios to make it easy and hopefully you can give me yes or no answers, here goes.

lets assume a Firespray dropped the mine and the next ship to move is an x-wing

 

 A low skilled pilot has just moved and dropped a proximity mine as an action:     Is the mine triggered when…….?

 

Scenario A) The x-wing moves and his movement template never touches the mine template but the base of the ship stand does partially travel over it and ends still partially overlapping it.

 

Scenario B) Same as above but the ship ends its movement without its base overlapping.

 

Scenario C) Same as scenario A but the ship starts out allready touching the mine template, obviously the only way for this to happen is if only the back of the ship is already on the template.

 

Scenario D) the x-wing starts its movement completely on top of the mine template but finishes its movement completely off the template but in order to do so its movement template is laid on top of the mine template.

 

Scenario E) Same as scenario D except only the front of the x-wing starts on top of the mine template.

 

sorry for so many scenarios but wanted to cover all bases and confusion to clear it up once and for all.

 

And just because i'm feeling lazy to check at this moment but after triggering a mine the ship  rolls damage dice, continues it's movement but recieves no action at the end. correct?

thank you all

 

 

A) The X-Wing ends on top of the mine, that triggers it.

B) The template does not overlap the mine, the ship does not overlap the mine (note that ships do not move along their movement templates, so you do not check its position along the way), so it does not trigger.

C) Less clear, but I'm going to go with the same interpretation as used for obstacles and say no.  The maneuver template did not overlap and the base did not overlap at the end.

D) The template overlaps, so yes.

E) The template overlaps, so yes.



#6 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:08 AM

It's a straightforward rule, actually. Does any part of the movement template overlap the token? Does any part of the ship's base overlap the token at the end of the maneuver? If the answer to either question is yes, the mine goes off; if not, it doesn't. 

So for the OP's scenarios:

A: Boom (base overlaps).

B: No boom. 

C: The description is unclear, but the ship's starting position is irrelevant. So as long as the template doesn't overlap the token, no boom. 

D: Boom (template overlaps).

E: Boom (template overlaps). 

[Ninja'ed by dbmeboy, but probably still worth posting for confirmation.]



#7 Gullwind

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:46 AM

So you guys don't think the ship would set off the mine if the base overlapped the bomb token as it performs the maneuver? The card says "When a ship executes a maneuver…" not "After a ship…" I would read that to mean that if any part of the ship's base overlaps the bomb token as it maneuvers, it sets the bomb off, not just if the maneuver template does. Thoughts?



#8 swampthing

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:03 AM

Just to clear up Scenario C. The ship's base does start off overlapping the mine but it is the back of the ship's base with the epicentre of the mine behind it and it sets of moving away from the mine, therefore always decreasing the amount that was touching and never having to place its manuever template on the mine.

If that helps or changes things



#9 dbmeboy

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:08 AM

swampthing said:

Just to clear up Scenario C. The ship's base does start off overlapping the mine but it is the back of the ship's base with the epicentre of the mine behind it and it sets of moving away from the mine, therefore always decreasing the amount that was touching and never having to place its manuever template on the mine.

If that helps or changes things

Ok, that's what I was thinking. That will not trigger the mine.

#10 dbmeboy

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:09 AM

Gullwind said:

So you guys don't think the ship would set off the mine if the base overlapped the bomb token as it performs the maneuver? The card says "When a ship executes a maneuver…" not "After a ship…" I would read that to mean that if any part of the ship's base overlaps the bomb token as it maneuvers, it sets the bomb off, not just if the maneuver template does. Thoughts?

You don't move the ship along the template during the move, so whether or not it would overlap if you did do that is irrelevant.

#11 swampthing

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:13 AM

In response to dbmeboy's answer to Scenario B. I was under the impression that ships do track along their movement template and that is how you determine where they make contact with another ship or asteroid and at what angle.

Am I wrong?

And as such as the ship follows along the template part of its base does travel over the mine triggering it.

Rather hopping this might change Vorpal Swords mind aswell but i can but try to argue my case.

I can see Gullwind is also starting to get confused



#12 dbmeboy

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:44 AM

swampthing said:

In response to dbmeboy's answer to Scenario B. I was under the impression that ships do track along their movement template and that is how you determine where they make contact with another ship or asteroid and at what angle.

Am I wrong?

And as such as the ship follows along the template part of its base does travel over the mine triggering it.

Rather hopping this might change Vorpal Swords mind aswell but i can but try to argue my case.

I can see Gullwind is also starting to get confused

You are wrong about that. The only time in the game where you move the ship's base along the template is when the final position overlaps with another ship and you have to move it back. You do not consider it at all with respect to asteroids.

#13 swampthing

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:42 AM

ok, my bad. thx for the help. may you all enjoy many future games of fun.

and maybe oneday there will be a boardgame we love that we dont need to constantly Faq.



#14 jetsetter

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:57 AM

dbmeboy said:

swampthing said:

In response to dbmeboy's answer to Scenario B. I was under the impression that ships do track along their movement template and that is how you determine where they make contact with another ship or asteroid and at what angle.

Am I wrong?

And as such as the ship follows along the template part of its base does travel over the mine triggering it.

Rather hopping this might change Vorpal Swords mind aswell but i can but try to argue my case.

I can see Gullwind is also starting to get confused

You are wrong about that. The only time in the game where you move the ship's base along the template is when the final position overlaps with another ship and you have to move it back. You do not consider it at all with respect to asteroids.

 

where is that stated, I'm wondering because that was initially how I played it and at a tournament I was told 'no, if the base overlaps during the movement phase then you have to roll for damage and get no action, and no attack if overlapping at the end.'  If you have a pg # or quote, that would be awesome.



#15 dbmeboy

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:21 PM

I'm on my phone now, so page numbers and quote will come later. In the mean time, check out the steps for moving. Nowhere will it say anything about moving the base along the template. Also, if the position of the base as it moved along the template mattered, there would be no need to check the template itself, for what that's worth.

#16 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:40 PM

dbmeboy said:

I'm on my phone now, so page numbers and quote will come later. In the mean time, check out the steps for moving. Nowhere will it say anything about moving the base along the template. Also, if the position of the base as it moved along the template mattered, there would be no need to check the template itself, for what that's worth.

Page 7: "Holding the template firmly in place, grip the side walls of the base and lift the ship off the play surface. Then place the ship at the opposite end of the template, sliding the rear guides of the ship into the opposite end of the template."

You pick the ship up and put it down at the end of the template. You don't slide it along, and the only time overlapping counts is at the end of movement.



#17 dbmeboy

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:30 PM

Thanks Vorpal Sword for finding that for me.



#18 lnmyer

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:59 PM

New question. If a ship hits the nubs on the back of the mine that are used for measuring; does that count as running over the mine? Just came up in a game tonight. We I thought yes the wife no.

#19 Gullwind

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 05:37 PM

The guides are ignored when determining range (rules booklet pg 10), so I would say that you would ignore them for purposes of detonating bombs as well.



#20 lnmyer

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 05:49 PM

Cool thanks. Didn't think of it that way, but that makes sense.




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