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Yet another what to buy/getting started thread (SSU)


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#1 rhoxie

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:05 AM

I've decided to take the plunge into Dust Tactics and am set for myself (Axis), but need to make some decisions for an SSU army for my son (12).  I'm going to pick up the Hades Campaign, so he can have Winter Child leading the force.  He would also like to play a mobile force, so I'm thinking about an armored transport.  However, this is where I'm stuck on what else to pick up.  Does anyone have a solid 200 point and 300 point list that would be competitive for him?  Some options would be:

Fakyeli

KV-47 (Should I but the single model or transport model?)

Specialists

Assault Helicopter

 

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks



#2 cloner4000

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:15 PM

I think the KV-2 heavy walkers are pretty good. It can be configured to either anti-infantry or anti-armor and have think armor, but not to the point of the tanks. 

 

I would also recommend the frontoviki and the red guard assualt squad. Those are fun. What kind of unit does your axis have? I think that can also play a role in what kind of unit he should have. 

 

Its good to have a good balance so both of you have way to dealing each other's unit. 



#3 moffmalthus

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:51 AM

Winter Child is a great unit to use but he needs to be played very carefully. It's always tempting to charge right out to destroy your foes but he will get knocked out if you do. It's better to hold him back and wait to expoit a weakness. If you are fielding a lot of level 3 infantry as the axis there going to chew through most of the level 2 SSU units. The best counter for this is the SSU walkers, winter child and even the snipers as they have a range of 6. The KV 3 is a great walker but it's either 55 or 65 points and you could field 2 of the 47's instead and they will be more effective against infantry and can still hit the level 4 walkers. To be honest your son would be better off starting with the allies. Get him a couple of kill squads and use the hell boys and BBQ squad. It's more forgiving of a new player. The SSU is really better for more experianced players.



#4 rhoxie

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 05:04 AM

I appreciate the feedback.  To help with your questions:

1) My Axis are mostly infantry so far, but a good mix.  I picked up a bunch from a friend, so I have the Revised box set group, 2x Zombies, 2x Apes, Snipers, and the Heroes box.  I'm going to pick up a core set for rules and tiles, so this will increase.

2) I'm not to concerned wil my son's play ability.  He picks up on games quickly and hasn't had too many problems with Warhammer FB/40K or Magic.  I'd rather him play what he wants, enjoy his models, and learn to play properly.  He's really not your average kid.

3) I'll probably slowly build Allies anyway…

OK, so here's what I thought of for 200 points:

Winter Child

1x Fakyeli

1x Red Thunder

1x Chinese Volunteers

1x Ariborne Transport

1x Natasha

Going to 300, I could add some more infantry and either another walker or assault helicopter.  Does this look good?



#5 moffmalthus

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 06:43 AM

The Fakyeli are a great unit but there going to get chewed up against Zombies and apes. The airborne transport is a huge point sink, you would be much better off taking another walker or a couple squads of Frontoviki.



#6 rhoxie

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:23 AM

So, against an infantry heavy Axis, he might be better off with:

Winter Child

1x Fakyeli

2x Frontoviki

1x Natasha

1x Nastasia

Looks like it gets a ton of shots vs. infantry and still has tank killing ability.  Of course, this is all theoretical since I haven't even played yetsonreir  He'll be a little disappointed because he likes the helicopters.  Although, he can add those later on.  Does this look versatile enough to take to a store and play with anyone there?



#7 cloner4000

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:32 PM

I thought that Frontovikiaren't too good against armor three units, with so many unit of zombies and apes,  Although I haven't played against that type of army before, so I can't give too much help there as I don't play competitively with other people. 

 

 

Though I guess for 200 points, the list looks good, although I have a lot of fun play against soviet squad with hero pack & the commissar. They can make a squad with a lot of hp, but also cost a lot so I don't know if its competitive, but its defiantely fun to play with. 



#8 xBeakeRx

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 07:30 AM

rhoxie said:

So, against an infantry heavy Axis, he might be better off with:

Winter Child

1x Fakyeli

2x Frontoviki

1x Natasha

1x Nastasia

Looks like it gets a ton of shots vs. infantry and still has tank killing ability.  Of course, this is all theoretical since I haven't even played yetsonreir  He'll be a little disappointed because he likes the helicopters.  Although, he can add those later on.  Does this look versatile enough to take to a store and play with anyone there?

If you're looking for versatility that you can take to a store and play against "all comers", I would suggest something like:

Winter Child

Fakyeli

Red Thunder

Red Storm

Natasha

Natasha

I think the Red Thunder/Storm are better for their points than the Frontoviki, and this gives you versatility against infantry or walkers.  If he really wants to use a helicopter at 200 points and Winter Child, he'll have to sacrifice by using lower quality infantry.  If that's the case, you could do something like:

Winter Child

Airborne Transport

Natasha

Natasha

Chinese Volunteers

Frontoviki

 

Hope this helps!

 



#9 moffmalthus

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:34 AM

I agree the red storm are better for sure. For just 2 points more you get UGL's and molotov's. You don't really need a lot of anti-armor if you have winter child and use him correctly. He can eat almost any walker for breakfast if you use him correctly.



#10 xBeakeRx

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:56 AM

moffmalthus said:

I agree the red storm are better for sure. For just 2 points more you get UGL's and molotov's. You don't really need a lot of anti-armor if you have winter child and use him correctly. He can eat almost any walker for breakfast if you use him correctly.

I agree, Winter Childshould be all the anti-walker you need, especially at 200 points



#11 moffmalthus

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:35 AM

I'm curious as to why you think the airborne transport is a good pick for a 200 point list… I myself have had little to no success with them even on 300 and 400 point battles. They always seem to go down first and cost 40 points each. In theory its great to use advanced depolyment but in practice it almost always backfires… at least in my experiance.  



#12 rhoxie

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 03:35 AM

I appreciate all of the help and am enjoying the discussion.  I ordered the minis for the list I posted above and we'll see how it works out.  I can always change up some of my Axis units if he's having difficulty while we are learning.  He can then decide how he wants to expand (provided he earns his allowance).

 

Has anyone ever thought about creating tactics primers for the different factions?  A lot of work, but really helpful to new players.

 

BTW, @xBeakeRx.  I love your Rocket Red Winter Child and will probably steal the paint scheme.  It just screams superhero.



#13 xBeakeRx

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:46 AM

rhoxie said:

BTW, @xBeakeRx.  I love your Rocket Red Winter Child and will probably steal the paint scheme.  It just screams superhero.

Haha, yeah that's what I was going for, glad you liked it!  

Good luck with the new armies, let us know how it goes.



#14 xBeakeRx

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:54 AM

moffmalthus said:

I'm curious as to why you think the airborne transport is a good pick for a 200 point list… I myself have had little to no success with them even on 300 and 400 point battles. They always seem to go down first and cost 40 points each. In theory its great to use advanced depolyment but in practice it almost always backfires… at least in my experiance.  

Not sure if that was directed at me or not, but I agree with you that the airborne transports are too big of point sinks.  If they were 30 points I think they would be much more balanced for what they offer.  I was only suggesting the transport to him at 200 because he mentioned his son was interested in using a helicopter, so tried to make a list that incorporated one.  

Personally, I've had mixed results with my tranports, but I've only played against my friend's Allies and he uses a Wildfire, Rattler, and 3 Grim Reaper squads as his core infantry so its tough sledding for my helicopters.  Normally if I choose to use helicopters against his army I won't use advanced deployment and play them cautiously. 



#15 moffmalthus

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:02 AM

I've used the transports against mostly german armies. There are always heavy recon gren's who knock out the transport in one turn. I guess against an army with little to no anti air they would be okay.



#16 xBeakeRx

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:24 AM

moffmalthus said:

I've used the transports against mostly german armies. There are always heavy recon gren's who knock out the transport in one turn. I guess against an army with little to no anti air they would be okay.

Yeah, that pretty much applies to all aircraft though.  I've found the best way to play them is cautiously, let your Natasha's or other armor whittle down the Heavy Recon Grenadiers or Grim Reapers first, then play more aggressively with the helicopters.  



#17 Kriegschatten

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:22 AM

I keep toying with the idea of starting an SSU army, because I love their tanks.  (Heavy armor that's actually usable?  Imagine that!)

But then I look at their infantry units and my face looks like this==> enfadado

 

I can't say I really like any of them.  I hate those stupid range 2 submachine guns that they're all armed with. 

I'm tempted to just field like, say, 10 units of snipers since they are the only ones that seem worthwhile.

 

Fielding a bunch of Chinese Volunteers woul be an option, too, but it's completely impractical since you can't get them without getting the stupid helicopter, too.



#18 xBeakeRx

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:01 AM

Yeah, the SSU infantry are definitely lacking.  The problem is they're all short-medium ranged infantry but all armor 2, so they die before they get into range. 

I like the Red Thunder and Red Storm squads a lot, you just have to get them into range safely.  I'm working on an "air mobile" army right now that utilizes 2 attack helis and 2 transport helis with some Red Thunder squads.

It's a shame you cant get the Chinese Volunteers outside of the Airborne Transport box because they would be a great unit to run alongside tanks.






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