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Bifur, Gloin 5-dwarf rule


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#1 GrandSpleen

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:33 AM

Hey all,

If you control 4 dwarves, then play Bifur or Gloin as your 5th dwarf, can you then trigger their Response?  I'm guessing no, but the sequences of events is hard to parse.  1) Play Bifur and you now control 5 dwarves, 2) You have now played Bifur from your hand. (can trigger his Response if he has it) Bifur gains his Response text, 3) It's now too late to trigger the response (when did it expire?).

Thanks for any clarification,

GS


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#2 Glaurung

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:35 AM

GrandSpleen said:

Hey all,

If you control 4 dwarves, then play Bifur or Gloin as your 5th dwarf, can you then trigger their Response?  I'm guessing no, but the sequences of events is hard to parse.  1) Play Bifur and you now control 5 dwarves, 2) You have now played Bifur from your hand. (can trigger his Response if he has it) Bifur gains his Response text, 3) It's now too late to trigger the response (when did it expire?).

Thanks for any clarification,

GS

I have same question……… Looks like yes you can but……….looks like no as well. Full of a doubt…..


Wizard is never late.......

 

Glaurung playtrough LOTR LCG on youtube :

http://www.youtube.com/user/olegyd   


#3 bollywongaloid

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:29 AM

hmmm… That's an interesting one but I would have said no because of the following:

Gloin has the text : While you control at least 5 Dwarf characters, Gloin gains: "Response: After you play Gloin from your hand, choose a hero. Add 2 resources to that hero's resource pool."

The important part for me is 'After you play Gloin from your hand'.  What I'm trying to get at is that if he is played as Dwarf No. 5, he doesn't gain the response until he's in play.  Therefore it follows that the text After you play Gloin from your hand' doesn't take effect because when the response became active, Gloin was already in play and you hadn't just 'played him from your hand' as such.  I hope people understand what I'm trying to get at… this is just my interpretation that's all. I've tried to simplify what I mean below:

1.  You control 4 Dwarves and have Gloin in your hand, so he does not have the response at the moment.

2.  You play Gloin - this is the moment the response would trigger if you already had 5 dwarves in play as you have just 'played Gloin from your hand' Remember a response is a 'triggered' effect.  However, you only controlled 4 dwarves at the time you played him.

3.  You now control 5 dwarves so Gloin gains the response.  However, you have lost the window in which to trigger it so you don't get the resources. 

Like I said, this is just how I think of it but an official clairification would be handy!



#4 Glaurung

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:26 AM

bollywongaloid said:

hmmm… That's an interesting one but I would have said no because of the following:

Gloin has the text : While you control at least 5 Dwarf characters, Gloin gains: "Response: After you play Gloin from your hand, choose a hero. Add 2 resources to that hero's resource pool."

The important part for me is 'After you play Gloin from your hand'.  What I'm trying to get at is that if he is played as Dwarf No. 5, he doesn't gain the response until he's in play.  Therefore it follows that the text After you play Gloin from your hand' doesn't take effect because when the response became active, Gloin was already in play and you hadn't just 'played him from your hand' as such.  I hope people understand what I'm trying to get at… this is just my interpretation that's all. I've tried to simplify what I mean below:

1.  You control 4 Dwarves and have Gloin in your hand, so he does not have the response at the moment.

2.  You play Gloin - this is the moment the response would trigger if you already had 5 dwarves in play as you have just 'played Gloin from your hand' Remember a response is a 'triggered' effect.  However, you only controlled 4 dwarves at the time you played him.

3.  You now control 5 dwarves so Gloin gains the response.  However, you have lost the window in which to trigger it so you don't get the resources. 

Like I said, this is just how I think of it but an official clairification would be handy!

agree 100% that how im play but you never know designers of this game…………


Wizard is never late.......

 

Glaurung playtrough LOTR LCG on youtube :

http://www.youtube.com/user/olegyd   


#5 GrandSpleen

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 02:41 PM

 

Hi all,

I submitted this question and got a response.  It is kind of an indirect response.  It requires interpretation.  I believe it says that you CAN count Bifur and Gloin immediately after playing them, then trigger their Response.

Here is the question I submitted:

> My question is about the ally cards Bifur and Gloin from On the Doorstep.

> If you control 4 dwarves, then play Bifur or Gloin as your 5th dwarf, can you then trigger their Response? What is the sequence of events here -- that is, I imagine that you canNOT trigger their Response in this situation, but when does their Response text become active and when does the opportunity to trigger it expire?

And the response:

Bifur and Gloin count towards the number of dwarf characters you control when triggering their Response abilities because they have to enter play before they can trigger. As soon as they enter play, you control them.

Cheers,

Caleb

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In other words, at the time that the Response text becomes active, you control 5 dwarves (counting Bifur or Gloin).  Thus trigginer the Response is a legal play.  At least, that is how I am reading this ruling.  What do you think?

-GS

 


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#6 bollywongaloid

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:47 PM

GrandSpleen said:

Bifur and Gloin count towards the number of dwarf characters you control when triggering their Response abilities because they have to enter play before they can trigger. As soon as they enter play, you control them.

Cheers,

Caleb

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hmmmm I guess I was wrong then! If I'm ever in doubt of the rules I tend to go for the harder option as that generally seems to be the case most of the time. Not that I'm complaining… gloin and bifur are gonna be even handier in a Bombur deck now I know this - especially at the start of the game to accelerate your deck early






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