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Having trouble winning as corp? Here are some tips.


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#1 Pwnius

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:01 PM

This is a thread to help beginners that are having trouble as corp build solid basic decks.  Experience players please post your deckbuilding tips!



#2 Pwnius

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:30 PM

 

Corps are much more difficult to play and build. Here are some core ideas which may help you:

The runner has inevitability. Given time he will always win. You must proactively pursue a plan to win. Some agendas give a large advantage if scored very early and can drain the runner, giving you a large advantage (ie Restructured Datapool, Nesei, Project Atlas).

18-22 Ice is a sweet spot for most decks. At least 2/3 of it should have end the run or make the runner want to jack out (ie data raven, chum).

Spending a turn getting 3 credits is a losing play. Plan for your deck to generate enough credits so that you will rarely need to do this. I usually run 12-16 $ cards.

Melange mining corp is very strong.  Defend it and it will probably win you the game.

Cards are easy to come by, credits are not.

Archived memories will help a TON if you are having trouble against Noise virus decks. Its also a generally good card.

3 x Ice wall goes in every deck. 3x Beanstalk Royalties go in almost every deck.

Try to balance your Ice types. 6-7 of each type is nice.

Abmushes are generally best played later in the game.  Ice that punishes runners are the best early game traps.

You rarely want to play anything that is not Pad Campaign without ice protecting it.

 

Some nice "combos" for corps that may not be obvious immediately:

Chum + Hunter (much better than data mine)

Chum + Neural Katana

Corporate Troubleshooter + Archer/Ichi/Woodcutter/Rototurret/Neural Katana

Akitaro Watanabe + Chimera

SEA Source/Snare! + Scorched Earth

Neural Katana + Snare!

Akitaro Watanabe + Edge of World

Commercialization + Archived Memories

NBN + Ash

 

When building a deck, I always begin with this skeleton:

Agendas (~9 cards)

11-12 other points

3 Priority Requisition

 

Ice (18-22 cards)

Sentries

3 Ichi 1.0 or Rototurret

3-4 other sentries

 

Barriers
3 Ice Wall

3-4 other barriers

 

Code Gates

3 Enigma

2 Tollbooth

1-2 other code gates

 

Credit Generators (13+ cards)

3 Beanstalk Royalties

3 Hedge Fund

2 Private Contracts

2 Melange Mining Corp

1 Pad Campaign

3+ more

 

Other Assets/Operations (~10 cards)

2 Project Junebug or Aggresive Secretary

8 more

 

49 total cards

 

 

 



#3 Darkjawa

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:21 AM

only ONE Pad Campaign? I run two and try and get them both into play ASAP. That way my opponent is goin to use the $$ to trash one of them, which is $$ that can't be spent on more important runs



#4 carolina_bryan

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:49 AM

Pwnius said:

 

Corps are much more difficult to play and build. Here are some core ideas which may help you:

The runner has inevitability. Given time he will always win. You must proactively pursue a plan to win. Some agendas give a large advantage if scored very early and can drain the runner, giving you a large advantage (ie Restructured Datapool, Nesei, Project Atlas).

18-22 Ice is a sweet spot for most decks. At least 2/3 of it should have end the run or make the runner want to jack out (ie data raven, chum).

Spending a turn getting 3 credits is a losing play. Plan for your deck to generate enough credits so that you will rarely need to do this. I usually run 12-16 $ cards.

Melange mining corp is very strong.  Defend it and it will probably win you the game.

Cards are easy to come by, credits are not.

Archived memories will help a TON if you are having trouble against Noise virus decks. Its also a generally good card.

3 x Ice wall goes in every deck. 3x Beanstalk Royalties go in almost every deck.

Try to balance your Ice types. 6-7 of each type is nice.

Abmushes are generally best played later in the game.  Ice that punishes runners are the best early game traps.

You rarely want to play anything that is not Pad Campaign without ice protecting it.

 

Some nice "combos" for corps that may not be obvious immediately:

Chum + Hunter (much better than data mine)

Chum + Neural Katana

Corporate Troubleshooter + Archer/Ichi/Woodcutter/Rototurret/Neural Katana

Akitaro Watanabe + Chimera

SEA Source/Snare! + Scorched Earth

Neural Katana + Snare!

Akitaro Watanabe + Edge of World

Commercialization + Archived Memories

NBN + Ash

 

When building a deck, I always begin with this skeleton:

Agendas (~9 cards)

11-12 other points

3 Priority Requisition

 

Ice (18-22 cards)

Sentries

3 Ichi 1.0 or Rototurret

3-4 other sentries

 

Barriers
3 Ice Wall

3-4 other barriers

 

Code Gates

3 Enigma

2 Tollbooth

1-2 other code gates

 

Credit Generators (13+ cards)

3 Beanstalk Royalties

3 Hedge Fund

2 Private Contracts

2 Melange Mining Corp

1 Pad Campaign

3+ more

 

Other Assets/Operations (~10 cards)

2 Project Junebug or Aggresive Secretary

8 more

 

49 total cards

 

 

 

 

I disagree with a lot of this.  Some of it is just opinion stated as fact.  For example, "Corps are harder than runners", is more of a playstyle mindset than anything else.  With the data packs the corps have gotten enough toys that a skilled corp will have a clueless runner for breakfast.

Saying that a runner has inevitablity on his side is technically true, but in practice a passive runner will lose just as routinely as a passive corp.  If the runner isn't applying pressure, the corp will generally win.

Whether getting 3 credits is a losing play is situational, and in fact, might be the best play.  There are many corps that WANT to turtle up and win the credit race to pull off game winning combos late game.  If you haven't drawn a money card and everything is protected, its a valid play. It is certainly not "a losing play" in a vaccuum.  You even concede later that credtis are harder to get than cards.  The only play for a corp that I think you can overgeneralize and say is almost always a losing play is "draw, draw, draw."

Archived memories is a situational card. Whether its worth spending influence on in non-HB decks is entirely dependant on your deck's strategy.  Its not a card I would single out as "auto-include" when describing general corp strategy.

Ice Wall is a staple.  Beanstalk royalties is not.  The general consensus is that its not really an efficient card, especially if you are spending influence to get it out of faction.

There is an entire Jinteki archetype based on playing a shell game and daring the runner to come at unprotected servers-often times only after reminding them that they have to run a central server first.

I guess my point is that, its kinda pointless to give "general" corp advice.  Each of the corps play differently enough (and most corps have more than one playstyle) that a good play for one may be a bad play for another and vice versa.  Same with individual cards/combos. With certain exceptions-Hedge Fund, for example-whether a card/combo is good or bad really depends on what you are trying to do with the deck.  

A better question is "Having trouble winning w/this corp/playstyle?  Here are some tips"

 

 

 



#5 Pwnius

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:13 AM

carolina_bryan said:

I guess my point is that, its kinda pointless to give "general" corp advice.

Translation: I am a troll who doesnt like this thread.



#6 Messenger

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:45 PM

Pwnius said:

carolina_bryan said:

 

I guess my point is that, its kinda pointless to give "general" corp advice.

 

Translation: I am a troll who doesnt like this thread.

Disagreement is not trolling. Trolling is being disrespectful to other people and being disruptive to the discussion. carolina_bryan addressed you with frank reason point-for-point- that is neither rudeness nor nonsense. Open discussion includes criticism and dissent in order for what's being said to be tested and weighed.



#7 Rellarella

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:50 AM

  1. ICE up R&D or the runner will get agendas from it if you don't. Chances are, the runner will score agendas off R&D even if you do.
  2. If the runner makes themself poor try to take advantage of it and score ASAP. However, there will be Stimhacks and maybe even Inside Jobs. Just accept that you might lose agendas due to Stim/IJs but don't let it stop you from trying to score when the opportunity arises.
  3. Don't be shy about trashing your own ICE upon installation of new ICE.
  4. More ICE is almost always good. Even when I play Jinteki I don't like to dip below 20 ICE because I consider icing up centrals to be critical.
  5. Pick your agendas based on how valuable their effects are to you, not how many points they're worth. 
  6. No, seriously if you don't ICE up centrals fast enough the runner will have their way with you unless you have 2 Snare! in hand and another Snare! sitting on top of R&D.
  7. Every single credit is a potential long term investment for the corp via ICE. Knowing when to simply click for credits is critical for corp play.
  8. One heavily advanced ICE in a deck with 3x Commercialization and 3x Archieved Memories can make a corp player ball out of control.


#8 Frosty Hardtop

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:54 AM

The Corporation has a lot working against it.

  • In general, the Corporation has a weaker economy in that it has to be set up and protected. The Runner can play a turn one Magnum Opus almost every game, and unless they're extremely reckless it will stay there.
  • The Corporation has to invest a lot of resources into scoring Agendas, and they can only do it from Remote Servers. The Runner can practically score them on accident, from any of the Corporation's play zones. Hell, with Notoriety they can score their own Agendas.
  • The Runner can invest all its resources into becoming more efficient and more effective. The Corporation is constantly throwing resources away on bluffing.
  • The Corporation's cards are split into four factions, whereas the Runner's cards are only split into three. The Runner factions have a larger cardpool to choose from, which means they have more meaningful choices and more powerful cards per faction.

The Corporation is almost always on the Defensive, rather than the Offensive. It's a disheartening thought but I've started to think that maybe what I'm trying to do is just make a deck that will score more Agenda points before I lose than the opponent's Corp deck can.

Play your opponent, not your deck.

  • Against the Criminal, defend your HQ and your Archives.
  • Against Noise, defend your Archives.
  • Against Whizzard (nobody plays Whizzard), defend your Remote Servers.
  • Against Shaper, defend your R&D and your Remote Servers.
  • Pay attention to what Breakers the Runner has and place your ICE appropriately.
  • When a Runner makes a bold move and throws down a Stimhack, unless they're running for the win, just let them pass. It saves you money, they were going to make the run anyway, and they take a Brain Damage for the trouble.
  • Fight back. Include cards in your deck that slow the Runner down. Snare!, Scorched Earth, Edge of World, Power Grid Overload. If the Runner can walk into your house and smash your stuff, you should be able to do that to her.
  • Don't go too crazy making money. It does reach a point where you've got enough, and spending more turns to make more money (usually for lack of meaningful other things to do) is just handing the win to the Runner, especially if you've got nothing to do with the money now that you have it.
  • Include one-offs in your deck that do powerful things. The Runner will expect it less, and then once you've played it, they'll have to play around the potential for another one for the rest of the game.


#9 Runix

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:12 AM

A lot of good suggestions.  I'll post my own, though some of them are repeats of the above - but that just means you're getting good advice. sonreir

  • Priority for ice:  one on HQ, one on R&D, two on the server you plan to install agendas and critical assets on, in that order.  Double up on HQ when you get a chance.  You can't take the chance of uncontested runs against your hand or your deck, and you can't take the chance of an easy Inside Jobs against your mission critical server.
  • Against Criminal or Noise (Anarch):  ice on Archives, after HQ and R&D are protected, to shield against Sneakdoor Betas and Noise's ability.
  • If a Medium comes out, you may want to layer additional ice on R&D.  Likewise with ice on HQ if a Nerve Agent comes out.
  • For structuring ice on your mission critical server, use the following order:
  1. Root (agendas/assets/upgrades)
  2. Cheap ice with "End the run"
  3. Expensive ice
  4. Cheap ice, ideally with a server-wide enhancement (e.g., Chum)
  • Prioritize getting the first two ice out quickly, even if you don't have cash to rez the expensive ice, as it will still protect against Inside Job.  Your innermost ice will protect the server, which is why it needs "End the run".  When you get the cash or a Priority Requisition you can rez the expensive ice, then add another layer or two on to protect further against Inside Job and to drive the cost of running the server way up.
  • Don't invest too much into one huge piece of ice, or Parasite or Femme Fatale or Emergency Shutdown could ruin your day.  Spread the ice out, and only use big Toll Booth type ice when you can do so efficiently, e.g., when you're awash in cash or you get a Priority Requisition.  Toll Booth and other cards that have costs that the Runner can't bypass are very valuable, but again, don't rely too much on them.
  • Runners do not (yet) have anything that impacts the entire server, so you can in fact have a super-server without worrying about the Runner whipping out some magic tool dismantle it.  And the more ice you have, the more powerful ice enhancement effects - like what you get with Chum or Sensei - become.
  • For income, deploy Pad Campaign as quickly as possible, even in an unprotected server - its trash cost is high, so even if the Runner trashes it, that click and four credits she burned could still be a win for you, at least in the early game.  When you have some cheap ice to spare, you can add some protection to raise the cost for the Runner to kill it, but don't waste a lot of resources trying to save it.
  • Early on, you may be better off running Melange Mining Corp for fast cash rather than advancing agendas.  Early cash is enormously helpful in getting your ice and upgrades rezzed so you can start advancing agendas with some degree of safety.
  • Agendas are often safest in hand early in the game.  If you have iced up HQ - and ideally, if you have multiple ice on it - every run against HQ comes at a cost, and has a chance of failure if the Runner accesses a card she can't trash.  (Exception to that is if the Runner has Imp or Nerve Agent out, in which case holding cards in hand can be dangerous, and you are better off installing or playing them as soon as practical.)
  • On average, drawing cards will reduce the proportion of agendas in hand, so while it is counter-intuitive, the best approach to reducing the chance of an agenda being picked off from HQ is to draw more cards.  Ice and operations can both be accessed from HQ with no risk to you other than the information the Runner gains, so if you don't need them right at the moment, they can pad out your hand and reduce the chance of an agenda getting stolen.  (But again, watch out for Imps and Nerve Agents.)
  • Put at least one very dangerous trap in your deck, like an Edge of World.  It will force the Runner to play cautiously and will severely punish overly aggressive Runner play, which is all to your advantage.  If you have no serious threats in your deck, you are giving the Runner a huge amount of freedom to take big risks.
  • And last, but certainly not least . . .
  • Bluff!  It's not easy, especially for new players who are accustomed to the safe, calculated play that a lot of CCGs and other games encourage.  But it is very important in this game.  The best way to learn is to do it, the more unpredictably, the better.  Put a trap in a heavily protected server and a valuable agenda in a lightly protected one and see if the Runner picks the wrong server to run against.  Trash an agenda from your hand if the Runner looks like she may be serious about running against HQ and you don't have anywhere to install it.  Install ice that you honestly don't have the credits to rez, just in case it might prompt the Runner to think twice about a run - etc., etc.  Bluffing is critically important in that it creates doubt in the Runner's mind, which may force the Runner to either behave less efficiently or be punished for reckless play.





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