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Some Questions in the game Lotr


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#1 my2008163

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 05:17 PM

 

1. Can I attach anything to the “Prisoner” in the quest “Escape from Dol Guldur”? Similarly, can I attach anything to those who have already been attached by “Sacked!”? As I think, the rule doesn’t ban this, so I can simply attach to them. But others insist that because the character is separated, they cannot get any supply from their teammate or face the same risk, they cannot be additionally attached.

2. Can I use the card “Born Aloft” to save “Winged Guardian” without paying resource? Others insist that because “Winged Guardian” is “Forced…” and “Born Aloft” is “Action…”, so this cannot be done. But in the rule book, it says “When resolving enemy attacks… Players may play event cards and take actions at the end of each step.” and” To resolve an attack against an enemy… Players may play event cards and take actions at the end of each step. ” So, before the “Winged Guardian” resolves I can use actions to save it from being discarded because when I use my cards, it is just the time the resolving ends.

 

” Forced: After an attack in which Winged Guardian defends resolves, Pay 1 [Tactics] resource or discard Winged Guardian from play.”



#2 kennoastic

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:18 PM

my2008163 said:

 

 

1. Can I attach anything to the “Prisoner” in the quest “Escape from Dol Guldur”? Similarly, can I attach anything to those who have already been attached by “Sacked!”? As I think, the rule doesn’t ban this, so I can simply attach to them. But others insist that because the character is separated, they cannot get any supply from their teammate or face the same risk, they cannot be additionally attached.

2. Can I use the card “Born Aloft” to save “Winged Guardian” without paying resource? Others insist that because “Winged Guardian” is “Forced…” and “Born Aloft” is “Action…”, so this cannot be done. But in the rule book, it says “When resolving enemy attacks… Players may play event cards and take actions at the end of each step.” and” To resolve an attack against an enemy… Players may play event cards and take actions at the end of each step. ” So, before the “Winged Guardian” resolves I can use actions to save it from being discarded because when I use my cards, it is just the time the resolving ends.

 

” Forced: After an attack in which Winged Guardian defends resolves, Pay 1 [Tactics] resource or discard Winged Guardian from play.”

 

 

 

1. There was an official ruling from Nate saying "Facedown cards retain no characteristics beyond those that are defined by the effect that turns them facedown. " From that I gather that the facedown card is no longer a Hero and can't have attachments.

2. When the attack resolves, the Forced trigger will trigger (and resolve) before you get a chance to use any action.



#3 my2008163

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:57 AM

well, how about those attached by "Sacked!"?

 



#4 my2008163

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:21 AM

kennoastic said:

1. There was an official ruling from Nate saying "Facedown cards retain no characteristics beyond those that are defined by the effect that turns them facedown. " From that I gather that the facedown card is no longer a Hero and can't have attachments.

2. When the attack resolves, the Forced trigger will trigger (and resolve) before you get a chance to use any action.

 

1.Please give me the link to the official rule. Moreover, to stop me from attaching something to a charater, it should no longer be a charater, because there's still attachment just need "charater"

2. I cannot simply agree this. FAQ 1.4 says "When determining the order of effect resolution among abilities within those categories, players should first resolve abilities that use the word 'when' and then resolve abilities with the word 'after'." So there is still time point "at the end of damge-determing step." before "After an attack in which Winged Guardian defends resolves"



#5 Pharmboys2013

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 03:49 AM

my2008163 said:

kennoastic said:

 

1. There was an official ruling from Nate saying "Facedown cards retain no characteristics beyond those that are defined by the effect that turns them facedown. " From that I gather that the facedown card is no longer a Hero and can't have attachments.

2. When the attack resolves, the Forced trigger will trigger (and resolve) before you get a chance to use any action.

 

 

 

1.Please give me the link to the official rule. Moreover, to stop me from attaching something to a charater, it should no longer be a charater, because there's still attachment just need "charater"

2. I cannot simply agree this. FAQ 1.4 says "When determining the order of effect resolution among abilities within those categories, players should first resolve abilities that use the word 'when' and then resolve abilities with the word 'after'." So there is still time point "at the end of damge-determing step." before "After an attack in which Winged Guardian defends resolves"

 

By that same logic, you would have removed the defender before the attacks resolves so you would have just taken the damage undefended. Either way, that's not how the card works. Period. It's a co-op game tho so play it however you want, not worth getting jammed up over


"His life is charmed, or fate spares him for some other end."

 

 

 


#6 GrandSpleen

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 05:34 AM

From the FAQ:

"(1.09) Forced Responses

Forced responses resolve immediately when their
specified prerequisite occurs, and before any response
effects that also can be triggered off the same
prerequisite."
 
The Forced effect on Winged Guardian must resolve before you have an opportunity to play Born Aloft.  


#7 scwont

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 08:47 AM

my2008163 said:

2. I cannot simply agree this. FAQ 1.4 says "When determining the order of effect resolution among abilities within those categories, players should first resolve abilities that use the word 'when' and then resolve abilities with the word 'after'." So there is still time point "at the end of damge-determing step." before "After an attack in which Winged Guardian defends resolves"

The key words I think you missed/misinterpreted here are "within these categories".  For example, if you have two Forced effects, one which is worded as "when" and one as "after", the "when" effect resolves before the "after" effect.

As GrandSpleen said, the Forced effect will trigger and resolve automatically at the end of the "determine combat damage" step (p.18 of the rules). You don't get an action window to play events until after the step has fully completed - i.e. any passive, Forced or Response effects have already resolved.

Admittedly the timing rules for this game have never been entirely clear in the official rules, although the latest FAQ (v1.4) helps clarify a lot of things. Essentially though you can never directly react to something in the game (in this case, a character being destroyed and leaving play) with an Action. You can only play Action effects when the coast is clear, as it were.



#8 my2008163

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:48 PM

scwont said:

The key words I think you missed/misinterpreted here are "within these categories".  For example, if you have two Forced effects, one which is worded as "when" and one as "after", the "when" effect resolves before the "after" effect.

As GrandSpleen said, the Forced effect will trigger and resolve automatically at the end of the "determine combat damage" step (p.18 of the rules). You don't get an action window to play events until after the step has fully completed - i.e. any passive, Forced or Response effects have already resolved.

Admittedly the timing rules for this game have never been entirely clear in the official rules, although the latest FAQ (v1.4) helps clarify a lot of things. Essentially though you can never directly react to something in the game (in this case, a character being destroyed and leaving play) with an Action. You can only play Action effects when the coast is clear, as it were.

Question: If I want to say effects that are in the same categlory, why should I use "within these categlories" instead of "within the same categlory"? Or the latter is more confusing than the former? 

P.S. I just don't do this either, just I think the rule has some comfusing points to make clear. 



#9 my2008163

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:52 PM

Pharmboys2013 said:

 

By that same logic, you would have removed the defender before the attacks resolves so you would have just taken the damage undefended. Either way, that's not how the card works. Period. It's a co-op game tho so play it however you want, not worth getting jammed up over

I agree.



#10 my2008163

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 05:00 PM

About my 1st Question,"can facedown cards be attached?" 

I need the link to the  official rule "Facedown cards retain no charasitics",or this is just not an official rule?

And just in my 1st question, there's a small question in it, "can a hero attached by 'Sacked!' be additional attached?"

No one answered this.



#11 GrandSpleen

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 12:58 PM

my2008163 said:

About my 1st Question,"can facedown cards be attached?" 

I need the link to the  official rule "Facedown cards retain no charasitics",or this is just not an official rule?

And just in my 1st question, there's a small question in it, "can a hero attached by 'Sacked!' be additional attached?"

No one answered this.

 

I'm not familiar with any official response about the prisoner, except that if you lose all your heroes except for the captured hero, your game is over.  To me, that suggests that the hero is not considered an in-play hero.  

As for Sacked! cards, I see no reason why you could not attach new cards to a hero that has been Sacked!.



#12 kennoastic

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 06:27 AM

my2008163 said:

About my 1st Question,"can facedown cards be attached?" 

I need the link to the  official rule "Facedown cards retain no charasitics",or this is just not an official rule?

And just in my 1st question, there's a small question in it, "can a hero attached by 'Sacked!' be additional attached?"

No one answered this.

 

About facedown cards my source is this:

http://www.cardgamed...12/page__st__20

 

About Sacked!:

The card says:
When Revealed: Attach to a hero with no "Sacked!" cards attached controlled by the first player. (Cannot be canceled.) Counts as a condition attachment with the text: "Attached hero cannot attack, defend, commit to a quest, tirgger its effect, or collect resources." 

To me it seems that playing attachment on a sacked hero is ok.

 

 






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