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About Shotguns with semi- full-auto burst


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#1 Mirt

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:51 AM

I've tried searching for a similar topic about this and failed to find anything related, so if I've somehow missed it pls forgive me :)

So a question came up on our last session in our newbie Deathwatch group (note the GM and another player is quite experienced in the game and we have some house rules too… we use the core book as well as parts of FF and RoB)

 

Our Tactical Marine requisited an astartes assault shotgun which has the scatter, reliable quality as well as 2d10+4 dmg with 0 pen with a RoF of s/3/5 and a range of 30 meters (standard ammo)

Lets assume that the said Marine is firing it in full auto burst in a 45 degree spread at 6 targets at approx 20 meters far away. He rolls nicely and acquires 4 degrees of successes. Since the targets are Not close ranged how does the damage roll goes? The player argued he would hit all of them (they didnt have dodge) and claimed to have made a 4*(2d10+4) damage. Well as expected this caused a general uproar from the GM and ofcpurse the other players too since the rules here are not specific. And according to the core book AP counts double only at long and up ranges so at this range this does not apply…

I would be curios to know how this damage is applied, because a SM can wield 2 of these weapons and fire both of them with minimal penalties and scoring so many hits (even though low damage each) that RF would be most certain…

Oh and what about special ammunition like the one with the flame quality. ? Would he knock out an enemy (or ALL?) with the fatigue effect?

What about point blank range against a single target? In the core book it says (for scatter) every 2 dos makes another hit, while full auto makes another hit every 1 dos so if he makes 4 dos on the attack roll how many dices he rolls? 2*4*(2d10+4)? Or (2+4)*(2d10+4) is the damage?

I would also ask about how would this work against hordes since they can't dodge and scoring so many successes (even with one weapon _not_ 2!) would have quite a terminal effect on the said horde….

 

We find it would not be an issue with Master level enemies since they have high armor and TB values making the AA shotgun inefficient but with exotic ammo it is still a problem (flaming, toxic etc?) 

 

Thanks in advance ! :)



#2 KommissarK

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:10 AM

The spread on the weapon is largely trivial concept. When you fire a weapon at a target, you are firing a weapon at that target (unless you have things like Flame or Blast on the weapon). Scatter is justified in this system by either providing more hits at point blank, with the tradeoff of less AP at further rangers. As neither of these were the case in this attack, ignore that aspect.

In this case, the player would have hit the initial target, and if they were adjacent enough (don't remember how many meters the full auto rules specify), he could allocate some of his hits to the other targets.

In other words, he had 4 "hits" of damage he could allocate to the targets. Not that they all take 4 hits each. At most he could of injured 4 of the 6 targets.

Also, targets without the dodge skill can still attempt to dodge at half their Agility. Usually not worth it, but still.

Unsure of the Flame quality ammo, I would have to reread the effectiveness with which it causes fatigue. I can say it would have to be quite a bit though, as enemies have to take like what, 1/2 - 2x their TB in ranks of fatigue before they go down. Which is going to be alot more than 1.

As far as dual wielding - at least at my table, it is polite to not dual wield 2 basic weapons. I recognize that the armour does allow for the one handed wielding of such weapons, but I keep that to mean that players can indeed wield a chainsword/knife/power sword one handed while one handing their boltgun/other basic weapon. In theory I think its possible, but a wise GM would force that player to be stuck in melee.

With Full Auto + Scatter at Point Blank - Yes, its a lot of hits. Apply each separately to the initial roll, so 4 DoSs would = 4 hits from full auto, 2 hits from scatter, 6 hits total. Significant, yes, but thats point blank range for you.

Against hordes realize that damage/RF means quite a bit less. Its about even with any other full auto weapon. Still, it needs to at least deal damage, so hordes of "heavier" enemies will be less affected by it. The damage is the same as you would handle it normally - the total number of hits that can "damage" the horde cause 1 mag damage. +1 if its X type damage, puls any other modifiers. Technically, theres really no way to fire the thing in Point Blank Range at the horde, as by the time they're at that 3 meter distance they're practically on top of you and in melee. But still, at point blank and with a full 10 DoSs on an attack, thats still 5 FA + 5 Scatter hits. 10 mag damage is sort of significant early game, but eventually its really not that much against a heavier horde.



#3 Mindforge

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:41 AM

I thought a weapon with the Scatter special quality only generated additional hits at point blank range.



#4 Mindforge

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:47 AM

Mindforge said:

I thought a weapon with the Scatter special quality only generated additional hits at point blank range.

I should have read closer, sorry about that. Full-Auto can only hit targets within two meters of the original target I believe. Those targets also cannot be harder to hit than the original target. You still use the multiple hit table and work in reverse. So he could hit four targets for a single 'hit' of damage. Kommisar is right. If all of the targets were at point blank range and within range could you count the additional hits generated from scatter against each target?






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