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Axis Sturmpioniere - outlcassed?


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#1 Brigaldio

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:33 PM

I'm really questioning the reasoning behind taking a sturmpionirere platoon, specifically the command squad and zombies.

Zombies just seem inferior to me.  Why take zombies when you can take gorillas with Markus?  They have similar damage output, but gorillas will be tougher at infantry 3, and have the advantage of being able to benefit from the blitzkrieg order.  So thay'll have a threat advantage as well.

Sure, zombies are cheaper, but if you take too many units you fall victim to the initiative trap.

Zombies can only be take in sturmpioniere platoons, but the command squad doesn't even want zombies.  It wants large squads f non-zombies to use its failsafe order most effectively.  And taking a whole squad of zombies is counter-productive because you miss out on support units.

I'm really not seeing the use for zombies, or sturmpioniere platoons in general.  Can someone give me a reason to lose out on Blitzkrieg?


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#2 em_en_oh_pee

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:03 PM

Here, check out the 2nd list and try that out. That is what Sturmpioniere units are good for, imo. :D



#3 ItsUncertainWho

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:33 PM

Brigaldio said:

 

I'm really questioning the reasoning behind taking a sturmpionirere platoon, specifically the command squad and zombies.

Zombies just seem inferior to me.  Why take zombies when you can take gorillas with Markus?  They have similar damage output, but gorillas will be tougher at infantry 3, and have the advantage of being able to benefit from the blitzkrieg order.  So thay'll have a threat advantage as well.

Sure, zombies are cheaper, but if you take too many units you fall victim to the initiative trap.

Zombies can only be take in sturmpioniere platoons, but the command squad doesn't even want zombies.  It wants large squads f non-zombies to use its failsafe order most effectively.  And taking a whole squad of zombies is counter-productive because you miss out on support units.

I'm really not seeing the use for zombies, or sturmpioniere platoons in general.  Can someone give me a reason to lose out on Blitzkrieg?

 

 

Zombies have two more bodies in a squad, they are Fast, and they have four more attacks than a squad of Apes, all before adding a Hero.

Add Grenadier X to a squad of zombies and you have a beast of a unit. They can't use cover but they have the same armor as Apes, since they are Damage Resilient.

Grenadier X and Zombies come in 8 points cheaper than Markus and a squad of Apes. 

Assault and Fast makes getting into Close Combat range much less deadly than Markus and Charge.

While Blitzkrieg is a great order, Fast units don't really need it. You can cover the same ground without issuing a special order. 

Sturmpioniere are a Fast unit also, so they can keep up with the Zombies, since they have to. Add Stefan to the Sturmpioniere and you get extra wounds, an extra flamethrower, and Assault. They make for a pretty potent unit.

There are a lot of reasons to take the Sturmpioniere and zombies.



#4 Dreachon

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:07 AM

ItsUncertainWho said:

Brigaldio said:

 

I'm really questioning the reasoning behind taking a sturmpionirere platoon, specifically the command squad and zombies.

Zombies just seem inferior to me.  Why take zombies when you can take gorillas with Markus?  They have similar damage output, but gorillas will be tougher at infantry 3, and have the advantage of being able to benefit from the blitzkrieg order.  So thay'll have a threat advantage as well.

Sure, zombies are cheaper, but if you take too many units you fall victim to the initiative trap.

Zombies can only be take in sturmpioniere platoons, but the command squad doesn't even want zombies.  It wants large squads f non-zombies to use its failsafe order most effectively.  And taking a whole squad of zombies is counter-productive because you miss out on support units.

I'm really not seeing the use for zombies, or sturmpioniere platoons in general.  Can someone give me a reason to lose out on Blitzkrieg?

 

 

Zombies have two more bodies in a squad, they are Fast, and they have four more attacks than a squad of Apes, all before adding a Hero.

Add Grenadier X to a squad of zombies and you have a beast of a unit. They can't use cover but they have the same armor as Apes, since they are Damage Resilient.

Grenadier X and Zombies come in 8 points cheaper than Markus and a squad of Apes. 

Assault and Fast makes getting into Close Combat range much less deadly than Markus and Charge.

While Blitzkrieg is a great order, Fast units don't really need it. You can cover the same ground without issuing a special order. 

Sturmpioniere are a Fast unit also, so they can keep up with the Zombies, since they have to. Add Stefan to the Sturmpioniere and you get extra wounds, an extra flamethrower, and Assault. They make for a pretty potent unit.

There are a lot of reasons to take the Sturmpioniere and zombies.

 

Even more so when we get the ubertoten assault and sucide sqauds.



#5 rahal777

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:42 PM

My question is why can't the allies have some kind of analog to the zombies? Like space monkeys (not like monkeys from space, but monkeys that weren't good enough to be shot into space, let's not be ridiculous…) with bomb vests or something. I can't be the only one who wants to see something like this.



#6 Cannor

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:22 PM

ItsUncertainWho is right about the Grenadier X plus zombies unit. It's a hugely underrated combo that can get the zombies 18" up the field in their first activation, and wherever the zombies end up, the opponent can't react to that movement because of the Assault ability that GX shares with them. Also, GX is cheaper to buy than Markus (financially) and is 8/1 vs S2, 4/1 vs S3.

 
As for space monkeys;)
 


#7 Brigaldio

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:53 AM

I'm not convinced.  Gorilas have a 33% move advantage vs. zombies due to being able to benefit from blitzkrieg, on top of being tougher due to S3 and able to benefit fully from cover.  Paired with a sniper to suppress a unit, they can threaten infantry 27" away.

I will give you that zombies led by grenx can be a useful distraction.  By running grenx & co. into melee, you force your opponent to sink other units' activations into getting rid of grenx before being able to activate the thing he's in melee with due to the threat of a reactive attack.  However, an 18" range on this tactis limits your ability to "surprise" your opponent, assuming that the unit doesn't get shot off the board to begin with because it's only s2 and has difficulty with cover.

The flaws in the zombie unit itself are aside from the anti-synergy that you get with the failsafe special ability.  Assuming that the failsafe ability is useful to begin with, taking zombies nets you 0 additional zombies from failsafe.

I can almost see the application of having the casualties from a platoon full of 5-man squads randomly spawn zombies (even if it is zombies in 1-2 man squads).  That gives your opponent more things to shoot than they have things to shoot them with.  Maybe a zombie or two gets through, and maybe the zombie is lucky enough to pick off a person or two.  Even a one man zombie squad requires some attention to bring down because it still rolls three dice for armor. 

 


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#8 em_en_oh_pee

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:18 AM

As I said earlier - Zombies perform very well when thrown across the table via a transport. This is the "Zombie Clown Car" and it is very effective. Slogging them up a table isn't exactly a great option, since anti-infantry fire will chew them up.



#9 ItsUncertainWho

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:44 PM

I find that when I run Gorillas in a Sturmgrenadiere platoon other units tend to get the Blitzkrieg order. Between Fast and Climb the Apes don't need a lot of boost to their movement. A good support/suppression strategy is far more valuable than an extra 6" move. Blitzkrieg can be more effective when given to a unit so they can move to a support position before the Apes get into combat. 

 



#10 Warboss Krag

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:19 PM

I think the reason people are talking zombies over kamphaffen (love that name; sounds like a dessert) is that Markus gives 4 attack dice, Grenadier X gives 8 vs. armor 2 infantry, as well as 4 against all vehicles. Furthermore, Gren. X absorbs 4 wounds; a unit of zombies with him becomes a 10 wound, armor 3 equivalent (don't forget zombies are damage resistant) for 40 points, while Markus and a unit of apes becomes a 9 wound, 48 point unit…enough points left over for a Beobacher team (anyone using Germans is using a Hans, right? If not, start). Damage: Armor 2 infantry Zombies 18 dice, Apes 10; 3 infantry Zombies 14 dice, apes 10; vehicles Zombies 14 dice, apes 10. So you see you can lose a couple of zombies getting to the target and still have parity with the apes, for 83% of the points cost.

And let's not forget that Grenadier X is available along with Stefan and Die Totenmeister (completely mis-named; it's a woman) for $20, while Markus comes with a $45 supplement to Tactics, pretty useless except for Markus and the other hero.



#11 spoook

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:29 AM

I like taking zombies because they are one of the few units in the Axis army which is effective against bothy infanty and vehicles. They are cheap, so you can bring a lot of them. With a Sturmprinz you can drop them off in close combat range and have a vehicle that can provide suppression. 

 

I normally only take one Blutkreuz platton. The other platton I use for the blietkreig on the Sturm Prinz.



#12 BDub

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:59 PM

Because they are allies and that is not their theme. Why homogenize the factions into mirror images of each other, especially when there are so few factions?

It sounds like you really want to be playing Axis.

-B



#13 spoook

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:10 PM

BDub said:

Because they are allies and that is not their theme. Why homogenize the factions into mirror images of each other, especially when there are so few factions?

It sounds like you really want to be playing Axis.

-B

 

WTF are you talking about? Allies? We have been talking bout Axus this whole time.



#14 jb11

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:58 PM

spoook said:

BDub said:

Because they are allies and that is not their theme. Why homogenize the factions into mirror images of each other, especially when there are so few factions?

It sounds like you really want to be playing Axis.

-B

WTF are you talking about? Allies? We have been talking bout Axus this whole time.

it was a response to rahal777's post suggesting the Allies should have an equivalent squad.






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