Jump to content



Photo

Tourney rules - Sleeves & marking


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#1 sageleader

sageleader

    Member

  • Members
  • 33 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:45 AM

I noticed in the tournament rules that sleeves are required, which is great. However it doesn't say anything against someone using different matte sleeves for different factions within one deck. For example, it seems like according to the rules I could sleeve my Sith command and objective cards as red and my Imperial cards as black. That way when I draw or shuffle them I could know what faction is coming next.

It does say sleeves are used to prevent accusations or marking cards, but nowhere does it say that card marking is illegal. It seems someone could use  matte sleeves and just write on the back of them things like "darth vader" to denote which card it is.

I suspect this is a huge mistake in the rules, unless I am missing something somewhere.



#2 doctormungmung

doctormungmung

    Member

  • Members
  • 69 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:25 AM

I dislike the aesthetics of solid backed sleeves, and use clear sleeves myself. While this works according to the letter of the law, it does seen to go counter to the spirit. I will be displeased if I have to get new sleeves to play in regionals. Also, would any sleeves with art on the back be counter to the spirit of the rules? If that's the case, then no one can use those Star Wars specific sleeves that ffg has put out, which seems wrong.

#3 Rogue 4

Rogue 4

    Member

  • Members
  • 343 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:58 AM

I believe that if you notice someone marking cards in any ways it should be brought to the attention of the TO, in which that person will be warned per the unsportsmanlike conduct and asked to replace marked sleeves (if it is a larger tournament, remember local tournaments you do not need sleeves).


Millennium Falcon, Rebel Transport, Tantive IV, A-Wing x2, B-wing, E-Wing, X-wing x4, Y-wing, Z95 Headhunter x2, HWK-290, TIE Fighter x 5, TIE Advanced x1, TIE Bomber, x1, TIE Interceptor x1, TIE Defender, TIE Phantom,  Imperial Aces, Slave I, Lambda Shuttle

 


#4 Rogue 4

Rogue 4

    Member

  • Members
  • 343 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:00 AM

doctormungmung said:

I dislike the aesthetics of solid backed sleeves, and use clear sleeves myself. While this works according to the letter of the law, it does seen to go counter to the spirit. I will be displeased if I have to get new sleeves to play in regionals. Also, would any sleeves with art on the back be counter to the spirit of the rules? If that's the case, then no one can use those Star Wars specific sleeves that ffg has put out, which seems wrong.

 

I agree. I bought all the FFG sleeves, and I wouldn't be happy if they needed to be replaced to play in tournaments.


Millennium Falcon, Rebel Transport, Tantive IV, A-Wing x2, B-wing, E-Wing, X-wing x4, Y-wing, Z95 Headhunter x2, HWK-290, TIE Fighter x 5, TIE Advanced x1, TIE Bomber, x1, TIE Interceptor x1, TIE Defender, TIE Phantom,  Imperial Aces, Slave I, Lambda Shuttle

 


#5 DailyRich

DailyRich

    Member

  • Members
  • 355 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:30 AM

doctormungmung said:

I dislike the aesthetics of solid backed sleeves, and use clear sleeves myself. While this works according to the letter of the law…

Actually, it doesn't:

 

"… players are required to use opaque protective sleeves for their decks."
 
So your sleeves have to be solid, not clear.
 
And since there's no further detail, I'd assume the Star Wars art sleeves would be valid.


#6 doctormungmung

doctormungmung

    Member

  • Members
  • 69 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:50 AM

Actually it says they only have to be opaque if you have cards with aurebesh text in your deck. Where did you pull your quote from? Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong part of the document.

#7 sageleader

sageleader

    Member

  • Members
  • 33 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:52 AM

Where does it say opaque? The rules state:

"For all officially sanctioned regional, national, invitational, and world championship events, players are required to use protective sleeves for their decks. For all local level events, card sleeves are not required, but players are encouraged to use sleeves both to protect their cards and to protect themselves against accusations of marking or manipulating decks by exploiting variance in the size, wear, or texture of their cards."

Clear sleeves are consistent with this. Furthermore, while the TO could deal with the situation where someone is marking their cards, it isn't technically against the rules or mentioned anywhere. Nowhere does it say that unsportsmanlike conduct is marking your cards. Under the things listed that are prohibited by the unsportsmanlike clause, it doesn't mention trying to mark your cards. It's obvious to all of us that it shouldn't be allowed, but it just seems like something that should be written in the rules.



#8 Toqtamish

Toqtamish

    Toqtamish

  • Members
  • 3,175 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:29 AM

Since its obvious that marking cards is unsportsmanlike does it need to be in the rules?



#9 Rogue 4

Rogue 4

    Member

  • Members
  • 343 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:48 AM

Since it doesn't say this in the rules, I can punch you in the face if I see marked cards showing to me that you are trying to cheat?

We don't have to be so legalistic about the rules that they have to list every possible infraction. We should all know that is morally wrong, so you shouldn't do it.

Of course I would never punch anyone in the face, I am a lover not a fighter…..


Millennium Falcon, Rebel Transport, Tantive IV, A-Wing x2, B-wing, E-Wing, X-wing x4, Y-wing, Z95 Headhunter x2, HWK-290, TIE Fighter x 5, TIE Advanced x1, TIE Bomber, x1, TIE Interceptor x1, TIE Defender, TIE Phantom,  Imperial Aces, Slave I, Lambda Shuttle

 


#10 sageleader

sageleader

    Member

  • Members
  • 33 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:01 AM

I see your point, but card marking is alluded to in the rules (when it says sleeved cards prevent complaints about marking) so I thought it was weird it wasn't included as a rule. I'm not trying to be legalistic about something that's obvious.

It's also obvious that "stalling a game for time, abusing an infinite combo to unnecessarily lengthen the game, inappropriate behavior, treating an opponent with a lack of courtesy or respect, scouting, predetermining the results of a match, … [and] premeditated collusion" are all unsportsmanlike, but they were specifically mentioned while card marking was not.

Maybe it's because I'm new to these types of tournaments, but marking seems to be a very big way that people can try to cheat as opposed to other infractions like punching people in the face, which probably are much more rare.



#11 Rogue 4

Rogue 4

    Member

  • Members
  • 343 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:25 AM

I agree, and please understand I am just trying to have fun, I would never hit someone. I completely see what it is you are saying.

Having played card games for sometime I can remember a story back in 1998 in Oklahoma City at a SWCCG tournament where there were over 100 players and someone slightly bent back all his Obi-Wan character cards so he would know when they would come to the top of his deck to draw them.

Also one time in San Diego at ComicCon someone had rubbed off the foil part of the Upper Deck circle on all his opaque sleeves where Vader was.

So I have seen first hand as player and TO of people doing this and it was never in those rules that you couldn't mark cards, but we just knew it was wrong and addressed it accordingly.

I wouldn't have a problem if they clarified it so it would prevent people from thinking it was ok to mark their cards.

Funny thought, think of what they would do to you back in the 1800s if you marked your cards while playing poker. You would get shot. Heck, in some places today it would probably be the same outcome….

 


Millennium Falcon, Rebel Transport, Tantive IV, A-Wing x2, B-wing, E-Wing, X-wing x4, Y-wing, Z95 Headhunter x2, HWK-290, TIE Fighter x 5, TIE Advanced x1, TIE Bomber, x1, TIE Interceptor x1, TIE Defender, TIE Phantom,  Imperial Aces, Slave I, Lambda Shuttle

 


#12 DailyRich

DailyRich

    Member

  • Members
  • 355 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:18 AM

Okay, they must have updated that since I quoted it, because this morning, there was NOTHING about Aurebesh in there.



#13 MarthWMaster

MarthWMaster

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,218 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:21 AM

It would also be kind of silly for opaque sleeves to be required to begin with, as currently the only way to recognize a neutral card you've not seen before as belonging to the light or dark side is by checking the color of the card back. The two sides' face templates are identical.



#14 FFGAnton

FFGAnton

    Member

  • Members
  • 23 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:14 AM

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your patience as we considered how best to phrase the new tournament rule related to the presence of alternate art and Aurebesh text cards in the competitive environment. We apologize for making such a quick update to our intial tournament rules, but we thought it important to be as clear as possible regarding the sleeve requirement.

A final version has been posted on http://www.fantasyfl...s.com/opsupport. In addition we have added version numbers to the Tournament rules, and will keep them updated as they are edited in the future.

Thanks for playing, and wish you luck at this year's Regional season!

Best,

FFG Anton



#15 Toqtamish

Toqtamish

    Toqtamish

  • Members
  • 3,175 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:14 PM

If a player’s deck contains Aurebesh text or alternate art cards, the sleeves must be art sleeves or opaque.



#16 TGO

TGO

    Member

  • Members
  • 322 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:19 PM

This is probably the most rediculous thread I have read on these forums.  



#17 flightmaster101

flightmaster101

    Member

  • Members
  • 176 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:57 PM

The sky is green!  No I am not citing or backing this position up!



#18 JMCB

JMCB

    Member

  • Members
  • 291 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:05 PM

TGO said:

This is probably the most rediculous thread I have read on these forums.  

 

I agree lol.


Top Tier Gaming, a community dedicated to Star Wars: The Card Game - http://toptiergaming.com
Follow us on Twitter - @toptiergaming
Like us on Facebook - facebook.com/toptiergaming
Streaming games on Twitch - twitch.tv/TeamTopTierGaming


#19 sageleader

sageleader

    Member

  • Members
  • 33 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:06 PM

I'm not sure what's so absurd about this topic. I haven't played in any major tournaments before so I was just curious why card marking wasn't explicitly prohibited.



#20 ScottieATF

ScottieATF

    Member

  • Members
  • 701 posts

Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:27 PM

sageleader said:

I'm not sure what's so absurd about this topic. I haven't played in any major tournaments before so I was just curious why card marking wasn't explicitly prohibited.

There are a great many things not defined in the rules that are clearly illegal.  You can't draw extra cards, even though the rules aren't explicit that you can't do that.  It is just common sense.  The same with card marking. The OP document can not and will not ever be able to go over every illegal situation.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS