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Help! Starship Combat Sample?


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#1 GalaxyUC

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:17 AM

Guys…

 

I have read the Beginner Game Cover to Cover…and I have also read most of the BETA version of EotE. I still do not understand Starship Combat. I'm a veteran GM of ALL of the Star Wars RPG systems made to date, and a veteran GM of WHFRPG 3rd Etd. Space combat always seems like an afterthought in these games, yet it is why everyone I personally know loves Star Wars, the dog fights and dramatic space battles/escapes!

For some bad reason, I just cannot wrap my head around this space combat system. I wish there was an extended example of a space fight! Say a YT-1300 vs. like 2 TIE Fighters would be fine. I know asking for a round by round recreation seems like a lot, but I feel it's the only way I can get it. Speed and range bands and manuevers is where this system loses me. It may be simple, but for some reason I cannot grasp it.

Can anyone provide some insight? I think I just need to hear it in a different way.

 



#2 aramis

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:12 PM

YT1300 vs two independent ties… using the beginner box rulebook.

Noting that YT1300 does not want to escape (due to the ties reporting them), and has 4 crew - Pilot (P), Copilot/Engineer ©, Gunner A (A), Gunner B (B)

The ties want to scan and destroy once scanned because of contraband. (T1) and (T2).

Everyone at maximum speed already

Starting range long.

Everyone was in the cockpits of their ships.

Step 0: initiative.

  P C A B T1 T2
Dice 2Y 1Y 1G 2Y 1G 1Y 3G 3G 3G
Roll SA AA SS S SS S _ SA SA SS A S S A SA AA A
Result 1.3 3.0 3.0 4.3 2.1 1.4
Ranking 6th 3rd 2nd 1st 4th 5h

Initiative Track…

 PC1   PC2   PC3  NPC1 NPC2  PC4 

Turn 1

Range to ties long/long

PC 1 will be P
He Maneuvers to close on T1
His action is a second maneuver to close on T1.

Range is now Med/Long

PC 2 is C  maneuvering twice as well - to get back to engineering.

PC 3 is GB who maneuvers twice to get into the guns

NPC 1 is T2. He maneuvers twice to close to Medium. Done.

Range is now Med/Med

NPC 2 is T1. He manevers to Short (his sensor range) and scans. Difficulty is 3P, and he's got 3G… Rolls SA S A Th Th Th… net 2S 1T. Black die next action. Has his scan data.

Range is now Short/Med

PC 4 is GA who runs to the gun, uses his talent to get in the seat for free, and aims.

Turn 2

PC 1 is going to be P again… Close on T1, Close on T2. Two maneuvers, no stress. Done.

Range is now Close/Short

PC2 is Gunner A. Aims, Shoots at T1. The YT is bigger by 1, so difficulty is 2P. He's Gunnery 3 and Agility 4…. pool is 3Y 1G 2P. 
Roll is Tr SA S A FTh Th for net 2S 0A and Tr… He crits and does 6+2= 8 damage. Tie can only soak 2, and only take 6, so takes two crits. He's out of action.

Range is now ---/Short

PC3 is C. She grabs her toolkit, and adjusts the shields. Mechanical, 3P… vs skill 2 Int 4… Pool 2Y 2G and (destiny flip by GM for "distractions") 2P 1R…
Roll is S AA SA A FF FF Th
Result is 2F, 3A. Gives next PC Roll a blue, and Gunner B a blue. No additional defense dice, either. "Ruh-roh, raggy…"

NPC 1 is T2 (since T1 is no more). Close and shoot. Range is now ---/Close. Roll needs 3G for attribute; difficulty is 2P; YT1300 has Def 1 shields, so 1 black die (1K,  since B is for blue, and K is printer code for black). Pool thus 3G 2P 1K.
Roll S A A FF Th _.
Result 1F 1A. A miss. Gives next action a blue.

PC 4 is Gunner B. Aim #2 and shoot… Skill 1 Agl 2 means 1Y 1G. 2B from aim, 2B from C's action. Difficulty 2P. 1Y 1G 4B 2P.
Roll is SA AA SA SA S A FTh F.
Result is 2S 5A… Another 8 point hit. BOOM!

That were short… ;)

 

As an aside, it's very much like WEG SW 1E was with range bands… so if truly familiar with all the editions… that should help.



#3 Uebelator

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:40 PM

Thanks for that example!

I´m still a bit confused about the use of the range bands in general. Are they handled seperately for each character?

In your example, the Transport uses two maneuvers to close in on Tie Fighter Number 1. Tie Fighter Number 2 is still at long range. But what if, the Ties are close to each other? Wouldnt the Transport be closer to the second Tie as well, by getting closer to the first one? Or is this whole range band thing just that abstract, to make it not too complicated?

Do the Ties need to be set up as a group of minions, to close in on them at once?



#4 GalaxyUC

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:55 AM

Yeah, I guess at the end of day to be more specific, it's the FLY/DRIVE Manuever that is just so incredibly confusing to me. The Speed vs. Range Band movement, relative to other ships. Like if a TIE is going at Speed 5, the Freighter is going at Speed 2, how does the Freighter over take the TIE…It can't right?? The TIE can just hover at Medium Range and the Freighter would never catch it?? I feel like the Speed and Range Band and Fly Manuever really needs more elaboration. This is the last piece of the game for me to grip. Thank you for the sample above though!

Also, the WEG system was also terrible.

 



#5 Diggles

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:23 AM

Remember this is COMBAT, not racing on a linear track.  Speed is also used for maneuving out of the way or into position.

You are correct, something with speed 5 COULD outrun slower craft if they wanted to, but most fast craft dont have long range weapons so there isnt any kiting.  Speed 5 fighters like TIE's are able to close distances QUICKLY and outmaneuver people easily.

What I used for my space combat mission was just draw about 5 circles and ships must move in the 'meat' of the circle and not allowed on the LINES.  Just like rings on a tree, each 'meaty' blank white space in the middle and someone in the ring next to you is 1 band away, short range.



#6 Aazlain

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:05 AM

I thought I had space combat prerry much figurd out, until I started typing a post to try explain the speed/range rules.

I realized that the rules are simple enough when ships are moving closer to each other, but things get a little weird when a ship is trying to move away from another ship.

As an example, consider the following : 

  • Ship X is withing medium range from its target.
  • Ship X has a current speed of 5.
  • Ship X uses a single Fly/Drive maneuver in the round to move away from its target.

 Can anybody answer at which range Ship X will be from its target at the end of the round, provided the target stayed stationary?


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#7 Diggles

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:11 PM

Speed 5 can travel from close range to long in 2 manuevers, thats 3 bands a turn.  Its already 2 bands away, which means he'd be at extreme range of the target



#8 Aazlain

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:31 PM

Hmmm… doesn't sound consistent with the fact that each range band is much farther away than the precedent. Also, if it was as simple as that, you'd thought that Fantasy Flight would have simply said something like "Speed 5, 2 maneuvers = cross 3 range bands". Instead, they stated which specific bands can be crossed at each speed. Not saying that you are wrong, mind you. Thanks for your input. I guess I'll have to wait for the core book or an official FAQ for clarifications.


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#9 GalaxyUC

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:21 AM

I get lost when I hear that  Speed 1 ship can spend to manuevers to get from Close to Short…what about short to medium, and medium to long? Can a ship at Speed 1 no travel those distances at all?? It's so vague, but so simple…What about escaping??



#10 Diggles

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:39 AM

GalaxyUC said:

I get lost when I hear that  Speed 1 ship can spend to manuevers to get from Close to Short…what about short to medium, and medium to long? Can a ship at Speed 1 no travel those distances at all?? It's so vague, but so simple…What about escaping??

 

Think of it like drag racers.  You only have so much time to cover a distance.  Beta book says a speed 1 can move Short>Close using 2 maneuvers.  The most ground you will cover with speed 1 is 1 range band.  Verus a speed 5 Tie Fighter that can jump from Med>Close w/1 or Long>Close w/2.



#11 Diggles

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 11:04 AM

Maybe this might help you

 

 



#12 GalaxyUC

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 05:26 AM

So, last thing…and I think I got this…what is the point of moving within CLOSE Range? What does it matter?



#13 aramis

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:53 PM

GalaxyUC said:

So, last thing…and I think I got this…what is the point of moving within CLOSE Range? What does it matter?

"Let's put him between me and you"…

"Let's get on his tail."

"Let's get in front of him."

It allows you to change which shield facings are relevant.



#14 deeahchur

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:04 PM

Now to throw a monkey in the wrench!

 

Strafing attacks?

A TIE is obviously faster than a YT-1300 and blasts across the hull as it speeds past. Given the rules, this would take three actions (1 maneuver to move, 1 maneuver to aim, and 1 maneuver to attack). I suppose it could be done with 2 (move and attack without aim), and for a TIE that kinda makes some sense.



#15 Diggles

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:33 PM

deeahchur said:

Now to throw a monkey in the wrench!

 

Strafing attacks?

A TIE is obviously faster than a YT-1300 and blasts across the hull as it speeds past. Given the rules, this would take three actions (1 maneuver to move, 1 maneuver to aim, and 1 maneuver to attack). I suppose it could be done with 2 (move and attack without aim), and for a TIE that kinda makes some sense.

Dont confuse the terms, attacks are ACTIONS not maneuvers.  Regular run of the mill minion Tie fighter pilots typically arent going to be aiming, they're strength are in numbers which is also how the minion system works.  Now if you were to encounter an 'ACE' pilot, he would probably be NEMESIS level and be able to strain his craft to accomplish actions like that (move, aim [strained], attack)



#16 Mojobacca

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:16 AM

Just so I'm clear on this as well.  In the Example used above by aramis, what if the Tie that scanned didn't get shot down?  With the difference between the YT1300 and the TIEs Max Speed Rating being 2 (3 for the YT and 5 for the TIE), if the TIE chose to flee instead, would it look like this:

 

YT at 3 Speed, TIE at 5.  Range = Close.

TIE uses two Man. to get from Close to Long.

YT seeing the fleeing TIE gives chase and uses both Maneuvers to get from (originally) Close to Medium.

The resulting starting range for the next turn will be Short correct?

Each additional round, the range will increase by 1 barring the inability to perform 2 Man. each?

 

Basically I'm seeing the range bands for the Fly/Drive Man. as being basically a number used to compare to the other guys Fly/Drive Man.  with the new starting point being the difference between the two.  Am I totally wrong in that?



#17 Dead-Pool

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:34 PM

I'm also curious from a narrative aspect about sensor range.  For instance, YT-1300 has short sensor range.  Does that only affect actions that a co-pilot/engineer can do, such as slicing enemy systems or jamming?  I'm just curious how far away they can detect craft such as fighters or capital ships.



#18 pressie

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 03:18 AM

Once at close range and either side does not try to escape do you still spend maneuvers too move, to simulate dodging and angling the ship?

 

So if you were using minions in your Tie Fighters, they can basically just spend the maneuver to move and an action to attack? As the further maneuvers like stay on target or gain advantage would cause strain and therefore cause wounds as they are minions.



#19 zilvar

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:48 AM

How would you handle a chase scene between ships of the same speed?

 

You'd never be able to catch up if you started outside of a range band that you could shoot in, would you?


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