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#1 TechVoid

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:14 AM

Hi fellows,

are somewhere the stats for a Valkyrie? In the Rites of Battlebook a 'Transport Shuttle' is avalaible but besides the stats for the Thunderhawk there is nothing to be found.

Cheers,

-- TechVoid



#2 herichimo

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:52 PM

An Astartes would not rely on something as flimsy and rikity as a Valkyrie unless it was absolutely the final option available and they absolutely have to fly. Not when they have Thunderhawks (space marines on the go without a T-Hawk? For Shame), stormraven, and other form of truley Astartes-worthy craft.

But no, I know of no official stats for the Valkyrie. Perhaps there's one in Only War. I have, though, personnally stated out the Valkyrie, Vulture, and Lightning aircraft for a campaign I ran. I think I got them fairly right.



#3 TechVoid

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:43 PM

herichimo said:

An Astartes would not rely on something as flimsy and rikity as a Valkyrie unless it was absolutely the final option available and they absolutely have to fly. Not when they have Thunderhawks (space marines on the go without a T-Hawk? For Shame), stormraven, and other form of truley Astartes-worthy craft.

I agree with your 'proper-picture-of-a-kill-team-going-into-battle' but by RAW, the Kill Team won't be able to get a Thunderhawk until their Reknown is Famed or Hero.

Thus, what else do they do?

Cheers,

-- TechVoid



#4 Cryhavok

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:54 AM

TechVoid said:

herichimo said:

An Astartes would not rely on something as flimsy and rikity as a Valkyrie unless it was absolutely the final option available and they absolutely have to fly. Not when they have Thunderhawks (space marines on the go without a T-Hawk? For Shame), stormraven, and other form of truley Astartes-worthy craft.

I agree with your 'proper-picture-of-a-kill-team-going-into-battle' but by RAW, the Kill Team won't be able to get a Thunderhawk until their Reknown is Famed or Hero.

Thus, what else do they do?

Cheers,

-- TechVoid

deploy by drop pod, teleportation or be dropped off in a borrowed thunderhawk that wont stick around to support them. Grav chute or jump pack and reentry coccoon is also an option.

#5 KommissarK

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:13 AM

If the mission demands the use of a Thunderhawk, then it really isn't a matter of the kill-team having the renown to acquire one, but rather the commanding Watch Captain making the order.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if a piece of gear is absolutely critical to a mission, the Deathwatch isn't going to play around and require a "you must be this honourable to enter".

It just that when the players requisition a Thunderhawk, they have better control over what it can do at the table.



#6 herichimo

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:25 AM

I remember reading or listening to something from one of the designers of the game which clarified the whole "famed for a thunderhawk" thing. Essentially this is for the kill-team getting their own personal thunderhawk. A thunderhawk they personnaly maintain, fly, and command.

The source went on to say, if they are on a mission where flight travel is necessary they will have space marine transport, but it will be piloted and commanded by, the thunderhawk's attached crew assigned to support the team from whatever transport option got them to their assignment area (Deathwatch spacecraft for instance). In other words its available to get them to point a and b but the marines can't get in and fly it themselves and use them as they see fit.

So a Kill-team can have a Thunderhawk for transport before famed if necessary. They won't have one 'issued' to the team to do as they see fit until they can requisition one at famed or the particular mission necesitates it.



#7 herichimo

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:33 AM

Cryhavok said:

deploy by drop pod, teleportation or be dropped off in a borrowed thunderhawk that wont stick around to support them. Grav chute or jump pack and reentry coccoon is also an option.

 

 

Heh, had a kill-team orbital insert from a stealth ship using grav-chutes (they are quiet) to sneak into a dark mechanicum city to rescue a pre-heresy stormbird recently uncovered before the hereteks could send it to the enemy. If I remember correctly I rolled to see which legion it belonged to originally and it came out to be from the XIV. The craft was lost well before the heresy and was just recently repaired to flight status waiting to be transfered to the place it would be modified further. They had to bring along a pilot-serf since none of them could fly the thing hehe.



#8 Mindforge

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:15 AM

herichimo said:

Cryhavok said:

deploy by drop pod, teleportation or be dropped off in a borrowed thunderhawk that wont stick around to support them. Grav chute or jump pack and reentry coccoon is also an option.

 

 

Heh, had a kill-team orbital insert from a stealth ship using grav-chutes (they are quiet) to sneak into a dark mechanicum city to rescue a pre-heresy stormbird recently uncovered before the hereteks could send it to the enemy. If I remember correctly I rolled to see which legion it belonged to originally and it came out to be from the XIV. The craft was lost well before the heresy and was just recently repaired to flight status waiting to be transfered to the place it would be modified further. They had to bring along a pilot-serf since none of them could fly the thing hehe.

Yeah, that's definitely an issue. I had players doing all this talk about wanting their own ship and what was the requisition to get one… After everything, they had no one in the player group to fly it. Pretty funny.



#9 WiseGuy

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:20 AM

I have looked but I cannot find any Valkyrie stats in the Only War books.

Personally most of the time my Kill Team use the Erioch pattern Land Speeder Storm.



#10 Mindforge

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 11:22 AM

The Valkyrie can't travel in space. It can't even reach the speed of sound. At the same hand a Valkyrie is produced in the current era. It's pretty much a simple VTOL transport. It would be my opinion that if Space Marines wanted one once they reached planet side, it would be given to them.

A Thunderhawk can drop from a ship in space and is used as a dropship.

But for a small unit ship that is a bit smaller than the Thunderhawk that would serve a great purpose is the Storm Eagle.



#11 herichimo

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:57 PM

Seeing as the stormraven is available for Deathwatch kill-teams (… lets not talk about the TT game …), requires a lower req level, and has available states; you may want to go that way as well.



#12 TechVoid

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:59 AM

And where can I find the stats for a Stormraven?

Cheers,

-- TechVoid



#13 herichimo

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:49 PM

Rites of Battle, same as the Thunderhawk.



#14 TechVoid

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 08:39 PM

Damn you are right. And were can I find the lower level req. ? It is not written in den Table where I can find the Thunderhawk requistion.

Cheers,

-- TechVoid



#15 The_Grey

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 07:41 AM

I don't think there is any such table.  The rules for Kill Teams acquiring vehicles are in a sidebar on page 171 of RoB, and they go something like, "if you have the necessary Renown, you may request a vehicle for a mission, and the GM decides yes or no."  

I get the impression vehicular support is intended to be part of the design as prescribed by the GM and the mission, and not acquired and meant to be available in the same way as, say, Signature Wargear is. 



#16 Zaltorin

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:19 PM

There is one stat set for a Valkyrie, namely the skytalon variant in the Citdal of Skulls book for Rogue Trader.



#17 herichimo

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 05:38 AM

Just posting up a reply to put this recent discussion back where it belongs after all the necro posting by yibbo.



#18 Face Eater

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 04:19 AM

The Stormraven has a renown level of Distinguished, as per the rules on page 171 of Rites of Battle if the team leader is distinguished and the GM agrees that it is appropriate the team should be able to get one. 

If it is not directly required according to the GM or an additional vehicle (only 1 vehicle can be requisitioned normally) then a Thunderhawk can be requisitioned by the rules on page 212 of rites of battle with the expenditure of 80 points requisition if the team leader of is famed.

By extension a distinguished team leader should be able to requisition a Stormraven, which I would put at 60 points (based on the cost of other vehicles of distinguished renown requirements).

I'm not entirely covinced, looking at the cost of armoured support for instance, that a Valkyrie would be any cheaper than that, pressumably there is a certain inefficiency when requesting from other organisations but might be the only options available in certain warzones. Hammer of the Emperor should be available in the next month so I won't go to the effort of writing down statistics although it would be fairly simple (although the vehicle statistics are not exactly the same in DW and OW, notable armour and weapon damage is lower). 

However, the aquila lander is available to any renown rank for 10 requistion (and as a non astartes vehicle you may always have to spend the requisition to use one) and is probably available where ever there are Navel vessels. It won't get directly involved in combat but gives a great amount of flexibility otherwise. Especially if combined with Jumpacks so that the team can deploy directly into the battlefield without the aquila needing to fly low enough to be in trouble.



#19 herichimo

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:52 AM

The support options are not options you gain and directly control the entire time of the battle. As an example: Requisitioning a veteran IG squad and valkyrie generally equates to a single fly in and assault. When they're done they fly off, if the GM allows it they may be available later in the mission. They do not become space marine lackeys and their valkyrie does not become the property of the kill-team.

Using these options as a guideline for requisitioning larger vehicles permanently controled by the kill-team is innappropriate. If the GM feels the kill-team needs and/or deserves a vehicle of some type for the missions they routinely deal with, then he can issue the team one, temporarily or permanently, whenever they request it.



#20 Face Eater

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 12:49 AM

The limit's of requisitioned Imperial Assests are specified on each of the entries individually and their availability is entirely up the GM.

For example, while a Space Marine tactical squad is only available for a single action during the mission and is specifically not under the command of the players an Imperial Guard Heavy weapon squad will follow the players around (where possible) for the duration of the mission.

In all cases the listed transports (Aquila Lander, IG Armoured Transport and Thunderhawk) mentioned are said to be available for the duration of the mission but may have other limitations. The Aquila for instance only has the fuel for a single round trip from and to an orbiting vessel or unlimited travel across a surface. 

Also bare in mind that the Astartes Assets do not normally represent the Deathwatch assets but instead forces from a Space Marine Chapter operating in the locality. Even with the Jericho reach crusade being as overly populated with Astartes as it is, in many battle zones this would mean that they are not available and it is highly likely that an asset used in one mission would not be available in the next.

Personally I would allow the use of some of these Astartes assets for Deathwatch material. For example if the team needed a second Rhino apc for some reason, perhaps they need to split the party to be able to flank the enemy or they invisage needing to send something or someone back to safety in an APC while continuing on their mission in another Rhino.






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