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Supercharging las weapons


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#1 Chiss

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:44 AM

Do the 'overload' Lasgun Variable Setting, the Overcharge Pack Weapon Upgrade and the Hot-Shot Charge Pack Unusual Ammunition stack?



#2 Flail-Bot

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:01 AM

Chiss said:

Do the 'overload' Lasgun Variable Setting, the Overcharge Pack Weapon Upgrade and the Hot-Shot Charge Pack Unusual Ammunition stack?

I'd have to say no. The Variable settings overcharge and overload use 2 and 4 shots respectively, so they definitely cannot stack with a Hot-Shot Pack, since there just isn't enough juice to fire the gun on those settings.

I would rule that the Variable settings and the Overcharge Pack COULD stack, but I think that the Variable setting "overcharge" is supposed to be the same idea as the Overcharge Pack. This is reinforced by them having the same name: the overcharge setting and the Overcharge Pack.

I think the idea is that an Overcharge Pack can give the same funtionality (albeit, no switching it off) for other las-weapons.

I would rule that with an M36 with a Overcharge Pack can fire in an overcharge mode, but it's equivalent to overload. i.e. takes 2 shots of charge, and does +2/+2 from the base damage of the weapon and is unreliable (or maybe just loses Reliable).



#3 Lynata

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:27 PM

 

I think the Hot Shot is pretty much a holdover from back before FFG gave all las weapons the power slider due to popular demand, and when only the Triplex was supposed to have that feature (like in Inquisitor or the Guard Codex). The only reason it's still around is, I suppose, because it was forgotten.

That being said, how about a houserule where the usage of a Hot Shot Chargepack and a las weapon set to a higher power level would confer the "Overheats" special quality, representing the gun not being intended to withstand such high levels of energy and its cooling systems failing? I'm kinda thinking about GW's fluff for the hotshot lasguns / hellguns here, which require "reinforced barrels and thermal-cooling cells" to deal with their increased output.


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previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#4 Plasmafest

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:05 PM

The 'Overcharge Pack' is another Copy/Paste gaff; it's not a Weapon Upgrade, it's Unusual Ammunition, same as the Hot Shot Charge Pack. This means it can be combined with variable-settings and 'hell' weapons, with cumulative damage increase and shot expenditure.



#5 Cryhavok

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:23 AM

Hot shot pack reduces clip size to 1. Overcharge setting uses 4 shots. If you can find a way to draw the power of four hotshot clips at once you can combine them, otherwise you cant. Maybe you could get the extended clips, or get the fire selector upgrade twice. Or use a backpack supply set to fire hotshot rounds and have your gm figure out how many it has. One thing might be awesome is if you applied the belt fed upgrade from black crusade to your weapon, where gthe belt was loading in hot shot packs, ejecting them, etc. It would likely be rather expensive to have 100 hotshot packs on belt though, still it would be a cool and unique weapon.

#6 Savage

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:44 AM

 

This is one of those frustrating issues that just won’t seem to go away. In fact, rather than making it go away, FFG seems to be clinging quite tenaciously to it, and in fact exerting a conscious effort to make it worse and even more confusing.

Back when there was only Dark Heresy and I was trying to help Ross Watson iron out some of the game’s (considerable) problems, we discussed Overcharge Packs, and I suggested it should be listed as an Ammunition option rather than a Weapon Upgrade. In fact, Page 9 of the DH Errata says quite clearly “The Overcharge Pack on page 142 should be listed as Ammo, not a Weapon Upgrade.”

Rather than keeping things simple, Only War has backtracked and confused things again. In fact, they made it even worse by adding the variable settings to the lasguns. Then they thought it would be an even better idea to rename Hellguns as Hot-Shot Lasguns while keeping the Hot-Shot Charge Pack in the ammunition section. Just to confuse you even more. Because you weren't yet confused enough.

Is it just me or does this stink of a rushed effort and lack of proper playtesting?

Anyway, to answer the original question…

NO, you may not combine the Overcharge Pack, Overcharge Mode, Overload Mode, Hot-Shot Charge Pack, or anything else with the same name that I’ve forgotten about because I’ve become too confused by all the things with the same (or slightly different) name that do the same or slightly different things.

This of course has no grounding in the RAW, but is simply my own interpretation and ruling on the matter. Feel free to combine all these lasgun options if you want; if you do, please drop me a mail to explain how you manage to do it in a way that is consistent and sensible.

Personally, I think, now that the lasguns have variable settings, the Overcharge Pack should simply be removed, never mind renamed as Ammunition rather than a Weapon Upgrade. The Hot-Shot Charge Pack… I would add to its description that it can only be used in a lasgun that is being used in its normal setting, not Overcharge Mode or Overload Mode. That’s what I would have suggested had I been a playtester for this game.



#7 Kasatka

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:13 AM

Savage said:

 

This is one of those frustrating issues that just won’t seem to go away. In fact, rather than making it go away, FFG seems to be clinging quite tenaciously to it, and in fact exerting a conscious effort to make it worse and even more confusing.

Back when there was only Dark Heresy and I was trying to help Ross Watson iron out some of the game’s (considerable) problems, we discussed Overcharge Packs, and I suggested it should be listed as an Ammunition option rather than a Weapon Upgrade. In fact, Page 9 of the DH Errata says quite clearly “The Overcharge Pack on page 142 should be listed as Ammo, not a Weapon Upgrade.”

Rather than keeping things simple, Only War has backtracked and confused things again. In fact, they made it even worse by adding the variable settings to the lasguns. Then they thought it would be an even better idea to rename Hellguns as Hot-Shot Lasguns while keeping the Hot-Shot Charge Pack in the ammunition section. Just to confuse you even more. Because you weren't yet confused enough.

Is it just me or does this stink of a rushed effort and lack of proper playtesting?

Anyway, to answer the original question…

NO, you may not combine the Overcharge Pack, Overcharge Mode, Overload Mode, Hot-Shot Charge Pack, or anything else with the same name that I’ve forgotten about because I’ve become too confused by all the things with the same (or slightly different) name that do the same or slightly different things.

This of course has no grounding in the RAW, but is simply my own interpretation and ruling on the matter. Feel free to combine all these lasgun options if you want; if you do, please drop me a mail to explain how you manage to do it in a way that is consistent and sensible.

Personally, I think, now that the lasguns have variable settings, the Overcharge Pack should simply be removed, never mind renamed as Ammunition rather than a Weapon Upgrade. The Hot-Shot Charge Pack… I would add to its description that it can only be used in a lasgun that is being used in its normal setting, not Overcharge Mode or Overload Mode. That’s what I would have suggested had I been a playtester for this game.

I may not have so much insider knowledge as Savage does up there but i can agree that the problem has only become more and more bloated as the 40k RP line has been expanded and the writers have gone overboard with the copy/pasta.

I'd suggest one of two solutions -

1. Remove variable charge modes from all but a single lasgun and leave the ammunitions as they are (also remove the weapon upgrades and turn them into ammo)

2. Remove all lasgun upgrades and ammos other than Hot-Shot charge pack and add into it's description that it can only be used in las weapons that can consume a single charge per shot.


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper.

Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane.


#8 Blood Pact

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:30 AM

Savage said:

Then they thought it would be an even better idea to rename Hellguns as Hot-Shot Lasguns while keeping the Hot-Shot Charge Pack in the ammunition section.

 

I don't think they deserve the blame for that, entirely.

Since the name change on Hellguns was probably done to keep things in line with the current GW terminology (which as of the last Imperial Guard Codex, had switched back to the stupid 2nd edition name of 'Hot-Shot Lasguns'.)






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