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#1 Robb_d20

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:22 AM

So, I am very new to this game (just ordered the Beginner's Box on a whim, showed it and several reviews to my players, everyone is excited).

After looking around the website a bit, I noticed two more book will be released eventually- one about Rebels and the other Jedi (sorry, can't remember the names…)

Everything I see now has the 'Edge of the Empire' name on it, while it looks like that is not the name of the overall system. So, a couple of dumb questions. I know a lot might still be speculation, but if you have answers/ideas that'd be awesome.

 

1) Will the two other books be 'compatible'? Even if they are the same rules, can a Rebel, Smuggler and Jedi all party up? Asking because I know my party is going to want to go in different directions.

2) Will they release a beginner box for each book, or will they likely just do it for EotE?

3) Aside from the dice, after we run the beginner's box will it essentially just sit there gathering dust after I get the core book, and what exists now to keep the game rolling past the box/long arm of the hutt?

4) If I download the two characters they added with long arm… would it be fine to run those two adventures with 6 players?

 

I realize this is a lot of probably annoying, re-posted, and possibly unanswerable questions but I just want to know what to expect going forward. I see that people are already playing games and I know about the beta but I feel like some or all of these answers are somewhere.

 

Thanks!
Robb



#2 ErikB

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:28 PM

Robb_d20 said:

1) Will the two other books be 'compatible'? Even if they are the same rules, can a Rebel, Smuggler and Jedi all party up? Asking because I know my party is going to want to go in different directions.

 

It is probably safest to assume that they will be as compatable as the first and second editions of a system.

Also, given that the books other books are not currently set to come out for another year/two years, it probably won't be an issue. And when they are out, you will probably be able to negotiate which of the games your group will be playing. 

I'd expect it to be something like World of Darkness. You probably will be able to run games where one person is a Vampire and another is a Werewolf and the third is a Mage, but it will take a bit of hacking at the rules, and be less satisfying than an all Vampire/Werewolf/Mage game.


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#3 Breakfast

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:52 PM

Robb_d20 said:

1) Will the two other books be 'compatible'? Even if they are the same rules, can a Rebel, Smuggler and Jedi all party up? Asking because I know my party is going to want to go in different directions.

2) Will they release a beginner box for each book, or will they likely just do it for EotE?

3) Aside from the dice, after we run the beginner's box will it essentially just sit there gathering dust after I get the core book, and what exists now to keep the game rolling past the box/long arm of the hutt?

4) If I download the two characters they added with long arm… would it be fine to run those two adventures with 6 players?

1) All three core books are designed as part of the same system.  The main rules are the same, although you can expect the other books to go more heavily into soldiers and Jedi.  

2) I haven't seen it posted anywhere if they plan on making more beginner boxes. I could see it going either way.

3) I've run it a few times with different groups as a way to introduce people to the game.  But once you've gone through it once, it has pretty much served it's intended purpose.  Like with most tabletop rpgs, many groups create their own stories.  If you're looking for additional premade campaigns, there's nothing official out right now but I would expect some releases after the core set comes out this spring.  But you should have fun using the story in the beginner box as a starting off point and making up your own adventures with your players!

4) You'll probably want to make the adventures a bit harder if you're playing with 6 people.  Try adding additional groups of minions or just bigger groups and adjust on the fly based on how easily your group is handling it.



#4 ErikB

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:04 PM

Breakfast said:

1) All three core books are designed as part of the same system.

 

But.

Rebel characters probably won't have obligation, but rather their own special mechanic that deals with their standing in the movement, or their Righteous Indignation about the crimes of the Empire, or something. The two probably won't mesh incredably well.

And the next games will probably be effectively running on the v2.0 and v3.0 of the system, based on the extensive real world use it will have seen by then. And they probably won't go back and update the earlier games to the new standard, since their focus will now be on the new games. So you probably won't see Edge of the Empire v2 for a long time.

In particular, I strongly suspect that the final version of the Force rules for Jedi will probably not be especially compatable with the version found in Edge of the Empire.

(Note that I don't necessarily think this is a problem, but I think seemless mixing of characters from all the games is unlikely, for the above reasons, and as such it is better to not plan for it)


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#5 mouthymerc

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:27 PM

Robb_d20 said:

1) Will the two other books be 'compatible'? Even if they are the same rules, can a Rebel, Smuggler and Jedi all party up? Asking because I know my party is going to want to go in different directions.

No one knows for sure. Working theory is yes they will be compatible. How could vary. Characters could end up being equal across the board in terms of character creation. They could also be equivilant, but maybe at different XP levels. For example a Jedi may take more XP to create than a smuggler, so a smuggler would need to start with more XP to be equal to the Jedi. Or there could be other differences. Obvious ones would be the inclusion and access of more Force powers in the Force & Destiny book. Only time will tell.

Robb_d20 said:

2) Will they release a beginner box for each book, or will they likely just do it for EotE?

i would like to say yes, but again no one knows for sure. They are good introductions to the settings. The first one was very good, even if it is limited. I think if the first one does well enough we might see ones for the Age of Rebellion and Force & Destiny. The one reason that this may not be so is that many people will be much more aware of the game by that point that they might not be as commercially viable as this first one.

Robb_d20 said:

3) Aside from the dice, after we run the beginner's box will it essentially just sit there gathering dust after I get the core book, and what exists now to keep the game rolling past the box/long arm of the hutt?

Yes it is somewhat limited unless you are running it for multiple groups as an introduction. Which is exactly what it is for. It does give some pointers for carrying on from it, but is obviously not as expansive as the core book will be.

Robb_d20 said:

4) If I download the two characters they added with long arm… would it be fine to run those two adventures with 6 players?

With some adjustments to the opposition it would be just fine.


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#6 Yoshiyahu

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:54 PM

Robb_d20 said:

4) If I download the two characters they added with long arm… would it be fine to run those two adventures with 6 players?

 

I actually did this with my group, and it worked out really well. There were a handful of encounters where I simply scaled up the number of opponents relative to the higher number of players, but that's about it. It's actually quite easy with the Beginner rules to scale encounters up or down "on the fly."

If you need/desire specifics, let me know and I'll be glad to provide them.


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#7 LethalDose

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:23 PM

My viewpoints/memory on these:

Robb_d20 said:

 

1) Will the two other books be 'compatible'? Even if they are the same rules, can a Rebel, Smuggler and Jedi all party up? Asking because I know my party is going to want to go in different directions.

 

 

FFG has stated the systems are intended to be compatible and the systems will use the same dice.  The presumption is that they will use a format similar to the WH40K product lines.  I haven't played these games, but from what other players have reported that, while they are compatible, they don't mesh well.  Hopefully the Star Wars products will work together better than 40K does (closer thematically, less massive differences in power levels in each product) or they'll use a different format to support compatibility.

Bottom line, though, is there have been absolutely zero official comments about how they games will be compatible beyond that they are intended to be compatible, and they'll use the same dice.

And even if there had been official comments, they haven't even released the first product yet.  IMO its important that remember that there's very little that isn't subject to change about the later games at this point.  Even "official" statements probably wouldn't be very reliable indicators about what we can expect to see in the later product.

In fact it just might be the reason why none have been made.

Robb_d20 said:

 

2) Will they release a beginner box for each book […]?

 

 

I really doubt this is gonna happen.  I think if you consider what you get in the EotE Beginner Box ("BB"):

  • Dice
  • Maps
  • Tokens
  • A full adventure

And with an MSRP of $29.95!  This isn't typical of FFG's pricing strategy at all.  I mean, MSRP on the dice alone is $15. Take into account the time and effort it took to produce the Beginners box (art design, rules adaptation, editing, etc), it's highly unlikely that the profit margin on the BB is anything like the their 'usual' products.  Their adventures for WFRPG seem to be priced around the same $30 point, and I think you get less (not a lot less, but still less) in one of those boxes than you get in the BB.

The point: I'm guessing they see the BB as advertising.  They want to get good word of mouth circulating about the product well before release and whet the appetites of the consumer for the full product (it already worked, dinnit?).  To get that, I think FFG is willing to suffer a wash on each unit (if not an actual loss) to get it.  This means that it'll be a lot less enticing to do this for AoR, and again for F&D. Especially because they'll already have the product out showcasing similar rules: Edge of the Empire.

Really, whats in that box that can't be published over the internet (thereby saving on printing and distribution costs)?  The dice and … The character tokens?  I guess?  When AoR is released, the dice will be widely available since they're the same dice as EotE uses.

So, if the systems are even moderately compatible, the EotE game basically can become a BB for AoR.  All FFG needs to do in a year or so is release a short PDF with baby AoR rules and a short adventure that showcase the cool new mechanics AoR has a-comin.  And thats a lot easier to do than produce a whole new boxed set.

Robb_d20 said:

 

3) Aside from the dice, after we run the beginner's box will it essentially just sit there gathering dust after I get the core book, and what exists now to keep the game rolling past the box/long arm of the hutt?

 

 


Robb_d20 said:

 

4) If I download the two characters they added with long arm… would it be fine to run those two adventures with 6 players?

 

 

 

 

3) I don't own the BB, but if you don't have the Beta book, I'm guessing the answers are "yes" and "Nothing beyond your own creativity".  There's nothing wrong with making your own rules for advancement so you can keep playing with the same core mechanic (narrative dice).  Which is cool, but probably not what you're looking for. Maker willing, though, maybe we'll get some adventure modules (official or not) published in the interim or just after release. 

4)  Don't own it, so I couldn't tell ya.  But from my experience with the beta system, I think what Yoshiyahu and Mouthymerc said above sounds really reasonable.

Anyway, I hope that helps.  Everything up there really is just my opinion, unless I cited something that said otherwise.

-WJL

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#8 BrashFink

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:24 PM

I could see every character having obligation. I mean almost all characters in story, film and everything have some kind of obligation… to someone, to family… to a code of honor… it actually could easily work for anyone.

Again, I do not see why this is so confusing to everyone. They have contiunaully said there is one system with bits and pieces you can plug in. Even right now, the "10 Questions about EotE" news article once again restates it:

"Each will be a standalone core rulebook, but will complement the other two to form a single game system. You will be able to mix and match the elements you enjoy most to tailor your own Star Wars roleplaying experience!"



#9 ErikB

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:37 PM

BrashFink said:

Again, I do not see why this is so confusing to everyone.

Well, they said the same things about the 40k games, and what actually happened was that the systems ended up sufficiently different that mixing and matching stuff didn't really work. But it didn't matter all that much because people didn't, in the end, feel much need to mix and match stuff.

So it isn't so much confusion as having heard that before…


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#10 geekFro

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

ErikB said:

Breakfast said:

1) All three core books are designed as part of the same system.

 

But.

Rebel characters probably won't have obligation, but rather their own special mechanic that deals with their standing in the movement, or their Righteous Indignation about the crimes of the Empire, or something. The two probably won't mesh incredably well.

Those could also be seen as an obligation. I could see the same system being used but with different Obligation Types.



#11 Sturn

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:48 AM

Straight from FFG:

"Star Wars: Edge of the Empire is the first of three epic roleplaying game installments. Each will be a standalone core rulebook, but will complement the other two to form a single game system. You will be able to mix and match the elements you enjoy most to tailor your own Star Wars roleplaying experience!"

Found here.



#12 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:47 AM

ErikB said:

Well, they said the same things about the 40k games, and what actually happened was that the systems ended up sufficiently different that mixing and matching stuff didn't really work. But it didn't matter all that much because people didn't, in the end, feel much need to mix and match stuff.

So it isn't so much confusion as having heard that before…

So there's no chance that FFG could have learned from past efforts?  Particularly as they have the freedom to build and develop the game system for their Star Wars line rather than being forced into using the Dark Heresy dice system?  Given how limited the root system that Dark Heresy used in terms of characters (it really works best for gritty, in-the-mud styles of play such as Dark Heresy and even WFRP2e).

With the Star Wars line, FFG doesn't have that problem  The fact that there's a basic set of rules for using the Force means that even if there's no Jedi career/specializations right out the gate, they are still keeping that future aspect of the system in mind.  And perhaps wisely, they're leaving the full-fledged Force-users for the last book, to make sure they have as much time as possible to work the kinks out so that when Force & Destiny is released, there won't be a rehash of the "Spees Mahreen" problem that you're so hung up on.


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#13 mouthymerc

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:59 AM

Pessimists are never disappointed. :-)

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#14 ErikB

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:23 AM

What passes for optimism is most often the effect of an intellectual error. :-)

--

It is certainly possible that FFG have come up with the first roleplaying system ever that won't benefit from an extensive rewrite in its second edition, and the first bottom up system ever to not break at high level, but I think it is unlikly, and not something one should plan around.

Still, I guess if people just want to keep on hoping, they should cling to that hope and not ask questions.


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#15 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:39 AM

I just prefer to give folks the benefit of the doubt until they've proven otherwise.

Jay Little and Sam Stewart have shown themselves to be pretty intelligent guys, particularly in regards to their Order 66 guest appearances, and that they are just as dedicated to making a game that is both solid and fun to play as well as (hopefully) being profitable for FFG.  Any game designer worth the title continues to learn from the games they've worked on in the past, both what works and what doesn't.  We're seeing this with WotC and D&DNext, we saw a bit of this with the EotE beta (non-career specs and skills, autofire, and Force rules in particular), it's been seen with FATE and it's evolution into FATE Core, and it's been seen with Savage Worlds (evolved from Deadlands Classic), and was certainly seen with White Wolf and their in-house Storyteller system.  Only Palladium has resisted changing and updating their rules, and consider there lack of relevance to most people's gaming habits these days.

New system, new opportunities, new chances, both good and bad.  But like I said, benefit of the doubt.


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#16 ErikB

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:15 AM

Donovan Morningfire said:

New system, new opportunities, new chances, both good and bad.

I agree, but I don't think there is anything to be gained by ignoring the very real challenges and sticking ones head in the sand and hoping they go away.

Don't you people have to do risk assessments? If we do this we will have a whole bunch of bits of dead human lying about the lab, and we should probably think about what to do about that, kinda thing?


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#17 mouthymerc

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:00 AM

I don't think anyone is burying their heads. We're just not choosing to think that it is automatically going to fail. Many of us feel that the guys are going into this, having taken lessons from the past, with an eye on trying to meld everything so it works well together. Whether or not it actually does only time will tell, but I'm not going to go into it thinking it either can't be done or will not succeed.

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#18 ErikB

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:03 AM

Incidentally, I would prefer that what people take away from my comments is not 'The Jedi Game Is Gonna Suck' but rather 'I hope that if, or as I clearly believe WHEN, it becomes time to choose between prioritising making the game they are currently working on better or ensuring backwards compatability with the previous games, they choose to make the game they are currently working on better.'

And that two and a half years is a heck of a long time to wait for Jedi, and maybe they could do something to bring that forwards a bit.


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#19 mouthymerc

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:25 AM

The concern is not that Jedi will suck, it is that many do not want them to eclipse other character archetypes as has happened in the past. Many of us want a game where all types can play together on a level playing field. I know many think they should outshine other characters, but just as many think they shouldn't. So if waiting a longer means we are more likely to get a balanced game then I can wait.

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#20 ErikB

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:49 AM

mouthymerc said:

I know many think they should outshine other characters, but just as many think they shouldn't.

I agree. I just kinda think that the ideal isn't to choose who gets what they want, but to make separate games so each group can get what they want.

--

But beyond that, IF it becomes apparent over the next two years of the game being out in the wild that the system in Edge of the Empire just isn't very good for playing Jedi without major tweaking, would people rather they release a system that isn't very good for playing Jedi but is backwards compatable with Edge of the Empire, or a system that is good for playing Jedi but isn't very backwards compatable with Edge of the Empire?


If you want a picture of the Empire, imagine a jackboot stamping on a beings face - forever.




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