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KL Tyrion and dupes


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#1 DubiousYak

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:45 AM

I have CoS Tyrion in play and another copy of him in shadows.  During the shadow phase I pay the two gold to bring it out of shadows and attach it to Tyrion.

Tyrion's response says:

Response: After a card comes out of Shadows, Tyrion Lannister gets +2 STR and gains your choice of Deadly, Renown, No Attachments, or Immune to Events until the end of the phase.

So I want to verify that a dup is still considered a card, so when Tyrion's dup comes out of shadows I can still trigger his response?



#2 thorin_81

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:43 AM

I'm not 100% sure, but I think you can't trigger Tyrion (KL) response. When he comes out of the shadows he becomes immediately a duplicate (so a card with no text, abilities, etc etc) and you can't trigger anything. And this triggered effect is self referencial, so I think only KL Tyrion can be affected, but he is a dupe now, so…

 

It's like Meera Reed: if you have her in play and another copy in shadow, you can pay one gold to bring her out of the shadows, but you will not blank any cards.



#3 DubiousYak

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:57 AM

thorin_81 said:

I'm not 100% sure, but I think you can't trigger Tyrion (KL) response. When he comes out of the shadows he becomes immediately a duplicate (so a card with no text, abilities, etc etc) and you can't trigger anything. And this triggered effect is self referencial, so I think only KL Tyrion can be affected, but he is a dupe now, so…

 

It's like Meera Reed: if you have her in play and another copy in shadow, you can pay one gold to bring her out of the shadows, but you will not blank any cards.

There is a difference though.  

Any Phase: Bring Meera Reed out of Shadows and into play by paying the rest of her gold cost. Then choose 1 non-plot card (2 instead if it is Winter) and treat its printed text box as if it were blank until the end of the phase.

Meera's ability only happens when she comes out of shadows, and this scenario is a dup coming out of shadows.

Tyrion is a response to a card coming out of shadows.

Response: After a card comes out of Shadows, Tyrion Lannister gets +2 STR and gains your choice of Deadly, Renown, No attachments, or Immune to Events until the end of the phase. 

So Tyrion can trigger his response off any card coming out of shadows, which Meera cannot.



#4 ktom

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:13 AM

thorin_81 said:

And this triggered effect is self referencial, so I think only KL Tyrion can be affected, but he is a dupe now, so…
No. this triggered effect is not self-referential. That's why this works.

You cannot trigger the Response on the copy of Tyrion that becomes a dupe because, as you said, the card is considered blank as a dupe. It has no text to trigger. But the copy of Tyrion that was already in play can Respond to the dupe coming out of Shadows the same as it can Respond to any card coming out of Shadows.

Unllike most cards, which say "after THIS CARD comes out of Shadows…", Tyrion simply says "after A CARD (i.e., any card) comes out of Shadows…". When you dupe Tyrion, a card did come out of Shadows. 

Now, if the original question had been about a Shadow character like Varys, the thorin's answer would have been just fine. complice






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