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Praetorians in Only War?


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#1 mistercactus

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:12 PM

Hi guys!

Curious about Only War, but really want to know if Praetorian IG are featured (or even mentioned). If they are, I'll pick up the book for sure.

For those that aren't aware, Praetorians are the regiment based on Zulu-war Britsh troops. The models are basically Mordians with pith helmets. Maybe not the most grimdark of troops, but I love 'em! :)

Cheers

Ian



#2 Plushy

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:00 PM

Only War lets you build your own regiments, and I can say from experience that it's robust. Pretty much every regiment in fluff has been hammered out by somebody by now, and then some; I've used it for Sisters of Battle, the Arbites, and Skitarii.

 


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#3 Face Eater

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:51 PM

I'm still hoping for offical rules Praetorians in an upcomming rulebook (maybe Hammer of the Emperor).

I don't think it's particularly outlandish to expect official rules for a regiment from all Guard homeworlds that had their own models (as there's only about 4 that aren't covered so far).



#4 Kasatka

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:54 AM

Armageddon Steel Legion (no mention so far)

Atillan Rough Riders (slated to be in the first source book)

Cadian Shock Troops (in core book)

Catachan Jungle Fighters (in core book)

Elysian Drop Troops (in core book but without their specialist vehicles)

Death Korps of Krieg + Death Riders of Krieg (korps are in core book, riders might be in the first source book alongside Atillan's, might not be however)

Mordian Iron Guard (in core book)

Praetorian Guard (no mention so far)

Tallarn Desert Raiders (in core book)

Valhallan Ice Warriors (no mention so far)

Vostroyan Firstborn (in core book)

The problem is that Steel legion are very similar to Cadrian mechanised infantry (simply add rebreathers to all) and Preatorian are similar to Mordians (nothing needs changing in fact!) and so they won't waste space in the first few books on them. The regiment i'm really surprised there has been no mention of is the Valhallans - i suppose the russian vibe was already present in the Vostroyans and so it would have been a bit of a duplication but i honestly think they bring enough uniqueness to the game.

But as already mentioned - regiment creation rules mean you can create whatever you want. If you realy want Praetorians just roll up a Mordian regiment with some subtle differences (different commander demeanour and favoured weapons for example).

 


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#5 Braddoc

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 02:32 AM

Valhallans will be in the Hammer of the Emperor book as stated in the news feed about it


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#6 mistercactus

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:52 AM

Okay, thanks guys! :)



#7 Face Eater

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:29 PM

Kasatka said:

The problem is that Steel legion are very similar to Cadrian mechanised infantry (simply add rebreathers to all) and Preatorian are similar to Mordians (nothing needs changing in fact!) and so they won't waste space in the first few books on them. The regiment i'm really surprised there has been no mention of is the Valhallans - i suppose the russian vibe was already present in the Vostroyans and so it would have been a bit of a duplication but i honestly think they bring enough uniqueness to the game.

But as already mentioned - regiment creation rules mean you can create whatever you want. If you realy want Praetorians just roll up a Mordian regiment with some subtle differences (different commander demeanour and favoured weapons for example).

I hope (for what it's worth) that isn't the case as the regiment rules don't take up that much space, just the missing ones you mentioned would take up a fraction of the space allocated to chapters and successor chapters in the Death Watch supplements and the value of adding new regiments is greater earlier  in the product line (with ongoing campaigns not going to be able to swap regiments like you can with individual marines in DW).

But mostly I think there's a lot of room left to make them mechanically different enough. It looks like they are including the Death Riders and surely that's pretty much just the Same Kreig regiment with a Rough Rider rather than Seige Infantry. Considering that the Mordian regiment is armoured and I'd have thought that the Preatorians would be more likely to be Line or even seige infantry, and maybe Iron Discipline instead of Combat Drugs. Also the Hunter Killer or Reconasance are as yet unused (assuming there are no other new types in Honor the Chapter) and the Steel Legion are known for their Sentinals too.

Of course that's not to say there aren't other perfectly good reasons. I'm not at all surprised that the Valhalens have been confirmed as they are pretty much the largest remaining regimental homeworld next to Steel Legion.

I remember Nathan saying somewhere that much of the Steel Legion fluff is from the 2nd and 3rd Wars for Armageddon which hasn't happened yet in the time line but they would have had the first war for Armageddon.



#8 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:34 AM

Face Eater said:

I remember Nathan saying somewhere that much of the Steel Legion fluff is from the 2nd and 3rd Wars for Armageddon which hasn't happened yet in the time line but they would have had the first war for Armageddon.

I did indeed say that - the 'present day' of Only War is around 817.M41 - the second and third Armageddon wars won't happen for a hundred and eighty years. And, obviously, the first war for Armageddon is something that no living son or daughter of Armageddon will remember (because the entire populace of Armageddon during the war was sterilised and deported by order of the Inquisition during the conflict's aftermath, and the world was subsequently repopulated by colonists from off-world). It basically ring-fences a load of the background so it's out of reach for RPG-era background.

That, IMO, means that the iconic bits of the Steel Legion aren't present - so other iconic regiments take precedence by comparison.


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#9 Robomummy

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 03:38 AM

Kasatka said:

 

The problem is that Steel legion are very similar to Cadrian mechanised infantry (simply add rebreathers to all).

not really, the regiments come from very different homeworlds. Cadia is completely militarized with most of the population required to serve in the guard and trained from birth to be soldiers while the hives of armageddon breed hive gangs and criminals as well as ordinary workers looking for a way out of the hives. also Armageddon is in a state of total war and destruction while cadia more or less has abbadon's black crusades under control.

There are many different ways to represent the regiments without them just being cadians with rebreathers.

 

Also regiments mentioned to come out in the suppliment book

-Tanith 1st and Only

-Atillan  Rough riders

- I beleive I heard that there was Death Korps Cavelry

I also would be surprised if they didnt include valhallans, savlar chem dogs, and steel legion.


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#10 Cryhavok

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 07:12 AM

I hope they gove us mounts soon so we can get some real lance wielding roughriders going.

#11 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 07:34 AM

Robomummy said:

Not really, the regiments come from very different homeworlds. Cadia is completely militarized with most of the population required to serve in the guard and trained from birth to be soldiers while the hives of armageddon breed hive gangs and criminals as well as ordinary workers looking for a way out of the hives. also Armageddon is in a state of total war and destruction while cadia more or less has abbadon's black crusades under control.

Strictly speaking, as of 817.M41, Armagedon isn't in a state of total war - Ghazgkhull Mag Uruk Thraka won't begin his first infamous invasion until 949.M41. And the Thirteenth Black Crusade is a hundred and eighty two years away, with the previous Black Crusade having largely ignored the Cadian Gate to focus on the Gothic Sector.

The rest of the point still stands, though - at bare minimum, a Steel Legion regiment would be Hive Worlders, which differs from the Cadians, who are Fortress Worlders. Also remember that not all Steel Legion are mechanised infantry (Armageddon is a manufacturer of Chimera IFVs, so they have a disproportionately large number of Mechanised Infantry regiments, but they still have more conventional infantry, armour, recon, artillery, etc, regiments as well). That, as much as anything else, was why I wrote the sample regiments in the Core Rulebook as specific regiments - sometimes to reinforce sterotypes (Tallarn and Catachan light infantry, Elysian drop troops, Krieg siege regiments, etc), other times to diverge from them (Cadian mech infantry, Mordian armour). As it happens, the Tallarn are as renowned for their tank batallions as their light infantry - the First Battle of Tallarn was a tank battle against the Iron Warriors.


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#12 Robomummy

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 08:47 AM

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Strictly speaking, as of 817.M41, Armagedon isn't in a state of total war - Ghazgkhull Mag Uruk Thraka won't begin his first infamous invasion until 949.M41. And the Thirteenth Black Crusade is a hundred and eighty two years away, with the previous Black Crusade having largely ignored the Cadian Gate to focus on the Gothic Sector.

Technically the first war for Armageddon was in 444.M41 when the world eaters attacked the planet along with other chaos forces that arrived in system from a space hulk. Ghazkull's attack was the second war for Armageddon.


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#13 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 09:26 AM

Robomummy said:

N0-1_H3r3 said:

 

Strictly speaking, as of 817.M41, Armagedon isn't in a state of total war - Ghazgkhull Mag Uruk Thraka won't begin his first infamous invasion until 949.M41. And the Thirteenth Black Crusade is a hundred and eighty two years away, with the previous Black Crusade having largely ignored the Cadian Gate to focus on the Gothic Sector.

 

 

Technically the first war for Armageddon was in 444.M41 when the world eaters attacked the planet along with other chaos forces that arrived in system from a space hulk. Ghazkull's attack was the second war for Armageddon.

To reiterate "Ghazgkhull… …won't begin his first infamous invasion…". I was referring specifically to Ghazgkhull's invasions, which are a defining background element for the Armageddon Steel Legions.

I'm fully aware of the First War for Armageddon - indeed, I referred to it's aftermath upthread. The First Armageddon War isn't a defining element for the background of the Armageddon regiments because, as I noted before, the entire population of Armageddon was systematically sterilised and imprisoned to prevent the spread of moral taint, and the planet was subsequently repopulated. The population of contemporary Armageddon aren't even descended from the people who fought in the (likely excised from common records and redacted from any official sources but those accessible to Peers of the Imperium) First Armageddon War.


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#14 KommissarK

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:28 AM

As an aside to this whole discussion, I feel its worth noting that the regiment creation rules appear to intend to be quite broad.

That is to say, beyond "homeworld" and the primary doctrine material (armoured company, line infantry, etc.), there is very little that any given homeworld necessarily reflects upon a regiment.

What I mean is, much of it is built around the particular history of that regiment, not so much the history of the world the regiment is from. It builds off the leadership styles of the commanding officer, the training methods and history that it has built up over the years. The regiments as listed in the book represent not only the homeworlds, but a particular regiment from a particular homeworld. Not all Cadians are mechanized infantry regiments. Not all Death Korps are line infantry.

My point in all this, is that any given "well known" regiment from the IG is basically covered in the broader "Homeworld" options as we're given here. Obviosuly, more options would be very interesting, but I personally think more pre-gen regiments using the existing rules would not be as interesting.



#15 TorogTarkdacil812

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 01:42 AM

Steel Legion pre- and post Ghazghul invasions is mostly distinguished by Favoured Foe (Orks) as with old Xeno Fighters (Orks) doctrine in 3rd ed. IG codex. So my take on generic Steel Legion Regiment circa 816.M41 would be:

563rd Armageddon Steel Legion "Ash Foxes"

Origin: Hive World (3pts)

Commander: Circumspect (2pts)

Regiment Type: Mechanised (3pts)

Equipment Doctrines: Well-Provisioned (representing the industrial might of Armageddon as one of the most important arms centers of the IMPERIUM*) (3pts)

Points: 11

Aditional Equipment: Gasmask, Survival Suit, Micro-Bead, Photo-Visor (32/30 + 2 from unused doctrines)

 If you are playing them post-Second Armageddon, then swap Well-Provisioned for Favoured Foe (Orks). I know that W-P is more about supply lines and favouritism in its description, but it would be a sad day if some rule couldnt be interpreted otherwise then written.

And not to highjack original thread entirely, does anybody knows/has what were the doctrines for Pretorian Guard as used with 2nd, 3rd Edition IG Codex? I know they werent there, but werent they in some White Dwarf, campaign, or such? It could help to imagine them into the Only War, rather then be Mordians with a headswap.


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#16 MILLANDSON

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 01:46 AM

Well, what I went with, when I made Praetorians, was:

5th Praetorian Guard Regiment
Hailing from the heavily overpopulated hive-world of Praetoria, the Praetorian Guard are well known for their staunch loyalty and courage. Having come from a world of hive gangs and desolation for the majority, where their food, water, and even air is rationed based on the contribution of the individual to the world, very few Praetorians are able to even comprehend the luxury and wealth that the nobility live in, never having to worry about having their air cut off, or find that they must starve so their children can eat for one more day.

It is for reasons such as this that the strongest and most hardy of the hive volunteer for the honour to fight for the Emperor in the Praetorian Guard, where they are drilled day in and day out to be the very best Guardsman the Segmentum Tempestus can offer. Unlike many other worlds, the Praetorians are trained in the tactics of a firm line and volley fire, their units able to stand strong against, and bring down, all but the most ferocious of the Imperium's enemies with disciplined rank fire from their lasguns, their autocannons and special weapons in support to finish off those which remain. They do all this whilst looking as immaculate as they would on the parade ground, scarlet tunics containing the beating heart of a loyal soldier of the Imperium, their pith helmets highlighting them to others, often marking the point of greatest resistance against the enemy in the war-torn battlefields of the 41st millennium, especially during their most well known victory, where they managed to hold the Imperial outpost on Rorke's Drift, a small planet in the Afrik system, against the onslaught of Waaaaargh Zulug.

Characters belonging to the 5th Praetorian Guard Regiment gain the following advantages:
Characteristic Modifiers: +3 Fellowship, +3 Willpower, +3 Strength, -3 Intelligence.
Starting Skills: Common Lore (Imperium), Common Lore (Imperial Creed), Linguistics (Low Gothic), Command, Athletics.
Starting Talents: Rapid Reload, Combat Formation or Double Team.
Starting Aptitude: Willpower
Blessed Ignorance: Imperial citizens know that the proper ways of living are those tried and tested by the generations that have gone before. Horror, pain and death are the just rewards for curiosity, for those that look too deeply into the mysteries of the universe are all too likely to find malefic beings looking back at them. Their wise blindness imposes a -5 penalty on all Forbidden Lore (Int) Tests.
Kill the Mutant: The general citizens of the Imperium are trained from birth to fear mutation, for it heralds the taint of Chaos. All Imperial World characters start with Hatred (Mutants).
Wounds: Characters from this regiment generate their starting wounds normally.
Standard Regimental Kit (Arms and Armor): Per player character—M36 Lasgun with melee attachment and 4 charge packs, stub revolver with 12 Expander Round bullets, Imperial Guard Flack Armour, two frag grenades, two krak grenades.
Standard Regimental Kit (Miscellanea): Per player character—Field uniform, dress uniform, poor weather gear, sling bag, basic tools, mess kit, water canteen, blanket, sleep bag, rechargeable lamp pack, grooming kit, ident-tags, The Imperial Guardsman's Uplifting Primer, Munitorum Manual, chrono, two weeks of combat sustenance rations.
Favored Weapons: Grenade Launcher (Special), Plasma Gun (Special), Autocannon (Heavy)

Creating the 5th Praetorian Guard Regiment
Home World: Imperial World (Fits them after their training)
Commanding Officer: Fixed
Regiment Type: Line Infantry
Doctrines: Close-Order Drill, Iron Discipline
Total Cost: 9 points


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#17 TorogTarkdacil812

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 02:00 AM

MILLANDSON: These two men approve

 

 

Personaly I would change Imperial world for Fortress World (and mess with the equipment a bit) for it sounds slightly more fitting, but still, wonderful. Where is the fluff blurb from, respectively what are its sources?


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#18 MILLANDSON

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 05:08 AM

I made the blurb up myself, actually reir I obviously based it on Zulu, though. The bit on about Praetoria itself was from Lexicanum and a couple of other 40k wikis.

As for the origin world, it should really be Hive World, because Praetoria is a collossal hive world, one of the biggest if I remember correctly, but I thought Imperial World just fit it better for post-training Praetorians, as they don't seem to exhibit the same attitudes as most hive-worlders, due to having the military regime drilled into them as soon as they've volunteered.


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#19 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 07:55 AM

KommissarK said:

As an aside to this whole discussion, I feel its worth noting that the regiment creation rules appear to intend to be quite broad.

That is to say, beyond "homeworld" and the primary doctrine material (armoured company, line infantry, etc.), there is very little that any given homeworld necessarily reflects upon a regiment.

What I mean is, much of it is built around the particular history of that regiment, not so much the history of the world the regiment is from. It builds off the leadership styles of the commanding officer, the training methods and history that it has built up over the years. The regiments as listed in the book represent not only the homeworlds, but a particular regiment from a particular homeworld. Not all Cadians are mechanized infantry regiments. Not all Death Korps are line infantry.

My point in all this, is that any given "well known" regiment from the IG is basically covered in the broader "Homeworld" options as we're given here. Obviosuly, more options would be very interesting, but I personally think more pre-gen regiments using the existing rules would not be as interesting.

Precisely.

While some worlds may produce regiments in a fairly… regimented manner (Cadian regiments may tend to have Sharpshooter and/or Iron Discipline, as those were the Doctrines given them in the old Doctrines system in the wargame, so it represents traits commonly found in Cadian forces), but the point of the Regiment Creation Rules wasn't to make all Cadians the same. The sample regiments are specific regiments not only to give a little Spinward Front-specific background (which was fun to write, as the Spinward Front setting was still taking shape at the time of writing), but also to show what the regiment creation rules can do.

The only thing I'd suggest is that if you plan to create a Tallarn or Krieg regiment (those who do have slightly non-standard rules) to use the variant special rule for those homeworlds when creating other Tallarn or Krieg regiments, as those rules were designed to better and more specifically represent those particular homeworlds. Needless to say, a Tallarn armoured regiment (something that Tallarn has produced many famous examples of) is an interesting thing to behold…


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