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Question about ranged attacks and range needed


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#1 Melonhead

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:30 AM

Greetings, fellow Descent 2nd Edition afficionados. I have just recently gotten my hand on this seemingly wonderful game, and by reading through the rules and various different posts here and there, I have arrived at question.

Consider this scenario:

+---+---+---+
|  A |      |     |        A = Attacking figure
+---+---+---+
|      |  E |     |        E = Enemy figure
+---+---+---+
|      |     |  T  |        T = Target figure
+---+---+---+

How much range does A need in order to hit T with a ranged attack?

1) Can he trace his attack through the space containing E and thusly need to roll 2 range or more?

or

2) Does he have to trace his attack through empty spaces, going around E, and thusly need 3 range or more?



#2 Rico

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 10:07 AM

2 range.  Range is not the same as LoS.  To keep your attack thematically correct you could say your character spotted an open shot for a brief moment and took it! Per page 13 you just need the range to the target as long as none of the spaces are labeled an obstacle.



#3 Robin

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 10:56 AM

So, if the "E" square was a terrain obstacle, the range would be 3, as the obstacle may not be used for counting ?


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
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#4 Rico

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:24 PM

Robin said:

So, if the "E" square was a terrain obstacle, the range would be 3, as the obstacle may not be used for counting ?

Yes, according to the RAW.



#5 Melonhead

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:09 PM

Ah, I see.

Thank you very much kind sirs.

Since enemy figures block both movement and line of sight it got me thinking that they counted as obstacles.

If I make it a houserule, that enemy figures count as obstacles in regards to counting spaces for ranged attacks, it would mostly just result in the attacker needing to roll one additional range on his attack in order to hit when attacking from a diagonal angle and someone is in the way, right? Basically it just means that the attack follows the path you traced for line of sight, and the guy behind the guy is in a little better cover, which makes sense.

 

EDIT: What does RAW stand for? I know that it means something like a strict reading of the rules word for word and interpreting them thusly, but is there a specific meaning to the acronym?



#6 black.balerion

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:51 PM

Hello Melonhead!

I read the rules in that way:

A figure may only target a space in his line of sight (see “Line of Sight” on page 12).

Since the figure is blocking the LOS to your target the ranged attack (not speaking about certain abilities where such an action would be ok) is not allowed:

If the line passes through the edge of a map tile, a door, or a blocked space (a space containing a figure or obstacle), the target space is not in line of
sight (see “Line of Sight Example” on page 12).

Thus, at least me and my group play it in that way, such a "normal" ranged attack would not be possible.

 

Just my 2 cents ;)



#7 JohnMill

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:40 AM

Hello Melonhead,

As you can read in the "Rules of Play" page 12, chapter "Line of Sight". It states the following:

"In order for a figure to have line of sight to a space, a player must be able to trace an uninterrupted, straight line from any corner of that figure's space to any corner of the target space."

So that would be the following:

Next paragraph:

"If the line passes through the edge of a map tile, a door, or a blocked space (a space containing a figure or obstacle), the target space is not in line of sight."

That would be the following:

Next paragraph:

"if the line passes along the edge of a blocked space, the target space is not in line of sight."

And that would be the following:

And now for the important part:

"However, if the line only touches the corner of a blocked space (without passing through the space itself), the target space is in line of sight."

Meaning:

So you can perform the attack.

As for the range bit. You have to count the squares, not the line. As such:

So your attack would require a range of 2.



#8 Rico

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:11 AM

Please remember that this is a grid-based game and the rules were written to accommodate this with respect to (among many other actions) targeting. Does it look "right"? No. But, it is how the game was designed (and endlessly play-tested). Just remember that Line Of Sight is a completely separate calculation than Range - as you can more clearly see with the previous post.

 

(Great visual aid JohnMill)






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