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The Tinkerer


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#1 pyrefly1986

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:36 AM

We are playing witrh the new city expansion and one of the characters attacks a player (the tinkerer). Rewards for defeating a character in combat say you may force the palyer to lose a lifem surrender 1 coin, or take a 1 object but NOT a follower. Since the tinkerer has all his objects set  as automated followers…does that mean there is no "objects" to steal or do they still count as objects, they simple don't count toward your carrying capacity?

Also … Constructs taken as followers, are they simply used as a token for the ability to throw away a encounter card and replace it. or can they be used for things like attack or making a attack or count toward trophies?

Thanks

 



#2 Bolithio

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:28 AM

Why cant you take a follower as a reward? This appears to be a common misconspetion!

But the tinkers 'object-followers' are only 'followers' to the tinker and thus can not be taken as a reward.



#3 The_Warlock

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:08 AM

pyrefly1986 said:

Also … Constructs taken as followers, are they simply used as a token for the ability to throw away a encounter card and replace it. or can they be used for things like attack or making a attack or count toward trophies?

The Tinkerer's character card clearly states that while a Construct becomes an automated Follower, you can't use its ability. You have to consider them like tokens, as you said.

Bolithio said:

Why cant you take a follower as a reward? This appears to be a common misconspetion!

It's not a common misconception, it's a well known rule. Check Rulebook, page 12:

5. Claim Reward
The winner may either force the loser to lose one life
(which may be saved by use of an Object or Spell), or may
take one Object or one gold from the loser to add to his
own. If the winner kills the loser by forcing him to lose
his last remaining life, the winner may take any Objects,
Followers, and gold from the loser to add to his own.
Any Objects, Followers, and gold not taken are left on the
space. The turn then ends.

Perhaps you mixed up winning a combat and removing the loser's last life?

Bolithio said:

But the tinkers 'object-followers' are only 'followers' to the tinker and thus can not be taken as a reward.

Yes. To complete the topic, even if the Tinkerer is killed, his Objects have to be discarded instead. Nobody will EVER have the Objects that the Tinkerer turns into automated Followers.



#4 pyrefly1986

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:19 AM

 

 

 



#5 pyrefly1986

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:25 AM

The_Warlock

"Yes. To complete the topic, even if the Tinkerer is killed, his Objects have to be discarded instead. Nobody will EVER have the Objects that the Tinkerer turns into automated Followers."

 

 

I don't understand, if the tinkerer is defeated by taking the last life point they would be at  minimum considered a follower taken as a prize for defeating a player or did you simply mean people cannot steal the tinkerers objects unless you were to have a card or ability to steal followers, then you would be able to steal automated followers? or since no ability anyway says "automated followers" after a players death the items in question would need to be discarded rather then taken by the victor or placed on the location that the tinkerer died in?



#6 Bolithio

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:34 PM

Perhaps you mixed up winning a combat and removing the loser's last life?

 

Arg! Yeh, somthing like that…



#7 Uvatha

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:24 AM

pyrefly1986 said:

The_Warlock

"Yes. To complete the topic, even if the Tinkerer is killed, his Objects have to be discarded instead. Nobody will EVER have the Objects that the Tinkerer turns into automated Followers."

 

 

I don't understand, if the tinkerer is defeated by taking the last life point they would be at  minimum considered a follower taken as a prize for defeating a player or did you simply mean people cannot steal the tinkerers objects unless you were to have a card or ability to steal followers, then you would be able to steal automated followers? or since no ability anyway says "automated followers" after a players death the items in question would need to be discarded rather then taken by the victor or placed on the location that the tinkerer died in?

Cards that are not followers but become followers come under a special rule called "cards that become followers" under this rule any card that becomes a follower can not be taken by spells or effects that target followers. And since you cant target them as a object there is nothing you can do to them. The extra rule is that also if the character who has a card that becomes a follower is killed the card is discarded instead of ditched on a space so even if the tinkerier is killed you still do not get the auto followers.



#8 pyrefly1986

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:09 AM

Where can that rule be found, I don't see it in the standrard rules, is that in a FAQ somewhere? or a expansion rule set?



#9 Uvatha

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:25 PM

pyrefly1986 said:

 

Where can that rule be found, I don't see it in the standrard rules, is that in a FAQ somewhere? or a expansion rule set?

 

FAQ there is a link somewhere around :). here http://www.fantasyfl...man FAQ 1-1.pdf

 



#10 The_Warlock

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:51 AM

Yesterday I had my first game featuring new Characters from the City Expansion.

I played as the Tinkerer and noticed that this Character is all but plain simple; on the contrary, it's quite difficult to manage. I was a little bit too hasty when I said that the Tinkerer should turn all his Objects into automated Followers, as he will have only advantages from that situation. It's not true.

First of all, turning Objects into automated Followers is an irreversible action. There's no element that makes me think that he could turn them back to Objects. For this reason, Objects should not be turned into Followers lightly.

Only valuable Objects, that you believe you'll never give away, should become automated Followers. Other goods, e.g. the 3 Objects you receive at the start of the game, shall never be turned into Followers, except when you need to make room for other good stuff. If you turn everything into Followers, you'll have plenty of chances to regret it.

I was looking for Gold everywhere and didn't manage to get it, neither on the main board nor in the City,at least not enough Gold to buy everything I needed. I wish I could turn some junk into Gold at the Alchemist, but I only had automated Followers with me. I did not realize my mistake at that time.

When I drew the Alchemist and Haggler Followers, it finally became clear. Everything that acts on Objects won't work with my automations. I had some mundane items with me (Water Bottle, Axe, Armour) but I was so stupid to turn them into Followers. When I had a chance to use the Haggler, the only Objects available for exchange were a Talisman and the Phoenix Potion. A Talisman for the Wand may sound like a good exchange, but not in the final part of the game. If I had at least one stupid other Object to give… I would have won perhaps. But I lost, giving away a Talisman and losing too much time to get another, because I had automated Followers when I should have had Objects.

Besides that, the Tinkerer's abilities are good, especially the ability to discard an automated Follower to replace any cards just drawn. It saved my game a couple of times.

I hope this helps understand the Tinkerer Character, a new design that was never seen before. I wish I could read game experiences from others.



#11 Weslocke

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:43 PM

I have another question about the Tinkerer. Can the Tinkerer change his objects into followers at any time? If so, that means that if anyone defeats him in combat/battle the tinkerer can change objects that the victor wants into followers….robbing them of the object taken victory.

 



#12 The_Warlock

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:40 PM

Weslocke said:

I have another question about the Tinkerer. Can the Tinkerer change his objects into followers at any time? If so, that means that if anyone defeats him in combat/battle the tinkerer can change objects that the victor wants into followers….robbing them of the object taken victory.

He can do it whenever he wants, but the correct way to handle combat is to consider it as a single process that cannot be interrupted.

From Rulebook:

Battles Between Two Characters
Battles between two characters are resolved in the following steps:
1. Evade
The character being attacked first has the opportunity to evade. If he chooses not to, or is not successful, then battle takes place.
2. Cast Spells
Both characters have the opportunity to cast Spells before the dice can be rolled. Any effects or abilities that affect a
character’s Strength or Craft must be implemented before the attack roll is made.
3. Determine Attack Rolls
Both characters then roll a die to determine their attack roll. Once both attack rolls have been made, the attacking
character must choose first whether to pay fate to reroll. Once he has chosen, the defending character has the same
option. No matter what the defender chooses, though, an attacking player who decided not to spend fate when he
had the opportunity may not change his mind after the defender has made his own choice.
4. Compare Attack Scores
Once the option to spend fate has been addressed, the attacking character’s attack score is determined as in battles
against creatures and Enemies. The defender’s attack score is determined the same way as the attacker’s score. The character with the higher attack score wins the battle. If the scores are equal, the result is a stand-off (see “Standoff” on page 10).
5. Claim Reward
The winner may either force the loser to lose one life (which may be saved by use of an Object or Spell), or may
take one Object or one gold from the loser to add to his own. If the winner kills the loser by forcing him to lose
his last remaining life, the winner may take any Objects, Followers, and gold from the loser to add to his own.
Any Objects, Followers, and gold not taken are left on the space. The turn then ends.

During combat, you have to do what's written above. Cast Spells when you're allowed to, not after you've rolled (except when Spells say so).

You can't use Spells, or abilities, between phase 4 and 5, except to save the loss of Life.

So no ditching, no alchemizing and no turning Objects into automated Followers.



#13 Weslocke

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:19 AM

Thank you Warlock.






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