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Is it me or is the "Light Infantry" regiment type under-powered?


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#1 wgerrard

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:38 AM

We've recently be building our regiment as players and being limited to Infantry by our GM were tryign to decide between Light, Line, Drop and Seige and quickly came to the conclusion that Light were simply inferior to all of the others.

They get a useful skill, but it's one that you can pick up elsewhere at character gen, but their talent isn't so useful and their equipment is massively inferior to all the others.

My feeling was that Light Infantry should either have been given some extra gear or cost only 1 point.

The starting with a flak vest and helm maybe theamatic for the like of Catachans but combined with their toughness penalty it does seem to want to make the PC's very fragile.

In the end we went with Line Infantry; as they seemed the most adaptable to the roles we each wanted to play.

But what do you guys think about the cost balance in regiment creation?



#2 .113

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:30 AM

They are, point wise, but lowering their 2 point cost to 1 would make them able to get something else instead which could make them better than intended. At least that's what I'm guessing is the reason.

All things considered, it's not that hard to just upgrade them if you feel like it, so that they have what you think they should have. But there should be a underpowered option, so I don't see why not.

Spend some points on Die Hard, chameleoline cloaks and upgrade some weapons and armour and you have a regiment just as awesome as anyone else, or just play them like weak under-armoured troops who are always the underdog. Makes for a pretty good feeling after you succeed with something :)

 

Edit: Also consider that Line infantry get athletics, which is cheap to raise (one aptitude is 'General') and Rapid Reload which is cheap, tier one, and if you think about how most soldiers should be weapon specialists (on average in groups) and get it for free if they want.. Whereas Sprint is a Tier 3 talent and thus more expensive.

The downsides on a general soldier is the lascarbine instead of lasguns but it's easy to upgrade and even if not upgraded, regular soldiers can choose a good quality lasgun. Also the armour of course is a bit of a minus, then again not that hard to upgrade if you feel it will be a problem (10 out of 30 points). So all in all, if the GM is nice or if the players can choose to create the regiment on their own, I'd say a Light infantry might be better actually. If your GM makes the company, and spends 5 points on an additional dressuniform, then Line infantry might be better :P

That being said, Siege infantry get more gear and for most characters more expensive skill and better bonuses.



#3 HappyDaze

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:47 AM

It would have been better if certain Training Doctrines had adjusted costs based upon Regiment Type. For example, if Light infantry payed 1 less point for Sharpshooters or Survivalists (only gained once; they could not get the discount on both) but paid 1 more point for Close Order Drill or Die-Hards (again they only suffer this once, and would only pay this extra point once even if they selected both Close Order Drill and Die-Hards).


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#4 Flail-Bot

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:05 PM

Light Infantry may be slightly underpowered. I think they should get something else to emphasize the mobility of the regiment type. They seem like the type of infantry that function well in dense environments that don't offer enough space for large vehicles, like jungles or some hive worlds. Perhaps Survival would be good, for free, and maybe some sort of secondary aptitude? But that'd be quite a boon.

Regardless, if you're looking at infantry only, the clear choice is drop troops. I mean, the grav chutes are just too rad to pass up.



#5 Face Eater

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:42 PM

I've got to say, i kind of agree. I've been putting a couple of regiments and several are Light Infantry fwhich is all very thematic, but it doesn't actually help to create the regiment and in two of the cases it's cost them 5 gear points just to upgrade to a full lasgun. The skills and talents are fitting for the regiements more than balancing.

If they were a point cheaper at least it would a) make important doctrines easier which would offset their armour and weapon lightness and b) make one regiment type 1 point, which is nicely incremental.

While letting you get some doctrines cheaper is also good, it's essentially the same (considering you're massively likely to have one doctrine at least) but more limiting. I can think of some fitting combination with most of the doctrines (sneak saboteurs with demolitions, obviously chameleoline etc).

I'm not super convinced, there might be another answer (i don't feel it has it at the moment).



#6 MILLANDSON

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:32 PM

Flail-Bot said:

Light Infantry may be slightly underpowered. I think they should get something else to emphasize the mobility of the regiment type. 

You mean like Navigate (Surface) [which allows them to find the quickest route to where they need to get to], Sprint [which allows them to move faster than anyone else, and is a Tier 3 talent], and +3 Agility [which boosts the benefit from Sprint, as well as making them good at dodging, etc]?


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#7 wgerrard

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:06 PM

Actually I hadn't spotted that Sprint was a tier 3 talent, so I stand corrected; to a degree.  I still think their equipment makes them under powered but yes by making some other regiment shoices you can offset this, but when you are messing about like that simply to pick up a single talent then there is something wrong.

I agree with one of the other posters, it would have been nice to have a 1 point regiment type, but then again (book not to hand) I don't think any of the other doctrines are 1 point (min 2).



#8 Kasatka

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:41 AM

MILLANDSON said:

Flail-Bot said:

 

Light Infantry may be slightly underpowered. I think they should get something else to emphasize the mobility of the regiment type. 

 

 

You mean like Navigate (Surface) [which allows them to find the quickest route to where they need to get to], Sprint [which allows them to move faster than anyone else, and is a Tier 3 talent], and +3 Agility [which boosts the benefit from Sprint, as well as making them good at dodging, etc]?

As Millandson points out, Light Infantry are easily the fastest moving infantry regiment type - i'm playing sergeant of a penal legion/light infantry unit at the moment and honestly we're rocking!
We move so fast (run/sprint/run combination to not gain fatigue) that we are rarely hit with shooting attacks, we've got 3 frag grenades each to deal with clumps of infantry that might pose a threat to our measly flak vests and helmets, while the 3 smoke grenades each allows us to set up some cover while advancing or get the drop on confused enemies.

And while it was gained through other doctrinal choices, our red-dot carbines and mono-sword (as standard kit) mean we are equally good at ranged and melee combat, more than making up for our so called inability to compete with line/drop/siege infantry.

Overall i rate light infantry quite highly - if you don't kit them out for what they are good at then their poor performance is not an issue with balance but in your misuse of them. You don't see anyone moaning that armoured regiments aren't good at stealth recon or tunnel fighting now do you?


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#9 Flail-Bot

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:47 AM

Yes, I suppose you make a fair point. I'm not entirely sure what I meant by emphasizing the mobility.

I've looked over them again, and decided that they don't really have any shortcomings, compared to other infantry. (except Drop Troops, which are tier #radical). They equipment "issues" can easily be rectified by an improved SRK.



#10 Face Eater

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:07 PM

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Light Infantry can't be effective and don't do their job. I've played a lot of DH and I can tell you Sprint is very good (not sure I felt that it needed to be a teir 3 but it can be v effective) but I'm not sure it's more useful than Nerves of Steel for instance.

But in many situations what they have doesn't give them any real advantage over the heavier infantry. For a stealthy ambush regiment cameleoline is a must (well it would be to have…) but it's still better to have heavier armour while hiding under it and running around faster in that situation isn't usefull. In fact with a good hiding place the lasgun is superior because you won't be picking the range.

For a mobile regiments smoke grenades are great, but they are only common items and if you are intending to close on the enemy having krak grenades is very useful but they are rare if you wanted them. And once you are in melee that extra armour is surely where you want to be.



#11 Kasatka

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 10:40 PM

Face Eater said:

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Light Infantry can't be effective and don't do their job. I've played a lot of DH and I can tell you Sprint is very good (not sure I felt that it needed to be a teir 3 but it can be v effective) but I'm not sure it's more useful than Nerves of Steel for instance.

But in many situations what they have doesn't give them any real advantage over the heavier infantry. For a stealthy ambush regiment cameleoline is a must (well it would be to have…) but it's still better to have heavier armour while hiding under it and running around faster in that situation isn't usefull. In fact with a good hiding place the lasgun is superior because you won't be picking the range.

For a mobile regiments smoke grenades are great, but they are only common items and if you are intending to close on the enemy having krak grenades is very useful but they are rare if you wanted them. And once you are in melee that extra armour is surely where you want to be.

Well maybe its my current group but with the ogryn being good at melee and my sergeant being great with a chainsword (counter attack, parry and high WS) it has meant that anything getting into melee is swiftly torn apart.


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