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Brainstorming a real B-wing Starfighetr


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#1 Olethros

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:46 PM

 

So, with the arrival of the wave 2, I guess we are just some months away from wave 3 (that I hope it can be showed in Gen Con and released at September or October). The Ship that is in everybody’s list for the new wave is the B-wing (and also the Tie Bomber, but let’s focus on the B-Wing).
 
With 16 meters in length (4 and half more than the X-wing) it is the biggest and more powerful starfighter that appeared in the movies. So let’s start with some technical diretly from Wookipedia: 
 
[q]“The B-wing carried an unusually high payload for its size, the largest of any Imperial-era starfighter, due to its designation as an assault fighter. As originally designed, the B-wing carried three ArMek SW-7a light ion cannons, two KrupxMG9 proton torpedo launchers with 8 torpedoes each, one Gyrhil R-9X heavy laser cannon, and two Gyrhil 72 twin autoblasters. Most B-wings had their twoautoblasters replaced with laser cannons to improve survivability and firepower, though some B-wings had four autoblasters. Additional configurations carried a heavy ion cannon, proton torpedoes, auto-blasters and a trio of laser cannons, or three laser cannons, three ion cannons, and twin torpedo launchers. The launcher was also capable of firing advanced proton torpedoes. The starfighter could also carry additional ordinance on hardpoints under the S-foils.
 
The B-wing was originally designed with a unique fire-control system which fires low-power lasers at a target to give the computer range and vector information for the torpedoes and ion cannons. While its strong deflector shields and great firepower allowed it to be somewhat survivable in fighter engagements, it usually required an escort on the way in. However, with the firepower of many naval corvettes, it fulfilled its purpose as a dangerous foe against many light capital ships.”[/q]
 
For me, I think that is a lot of similarities between the B-Wing and the Firespray, having Ion Cannons, Proton Torpedoes, a Heavy Laser Cannon and Two AutoBlasters. In the end, the only different thing here is the Auto Blaster, that can be a new upgrade made exclusively for the B-wing. 
 
The description of the autoblaster reads:
 
[q]“As with modern blaster cannons, the autoblaster produced a high-intensity particle beam that was propelled from the barrel at a target. However, unlike its modern equivalents, the autoblaster fired a salvo of wild bolts, powerful but not extremely accurate. The autoblaster was reintroduced during the Galactic Civil War, now as an updated version of blaster technology. Designed for the B-wing fighter, this modern autoblaster had an even higher rate of fire than other blasters, but was not available to other models until after the Battle of Endor.” [/q]
 
It look a lot like a shotgun effect to me, maybe a secondary weapon that shoots 4 dice re-rolling blanks at range 1 (or only 5 dice), 2 regular dice at range 2 and that can’t be used at range 3.
 
So now  that we have all the weapon slots figured out we could think about the main laser gun. I guess since the B-Wing relied so much in his varied arsenal I would give 2 attack dice for it main gun, maybe 3, but 2 seems better. 
 
Now let’s look for the agility of the starfighter, and a first look at his hulls and shields: 
 
[q]“The B-wing was designed to replace the aging BTL Y-wing starfighter in the heavy assault role against capital ships, as it had the advantage of more weaponry and stronger shields. However, the B-wing had several weaknesses, notably being difficult to fly and lacking speed and agility, affecting its dogfighting capability. Its large hull furthermore made it an easier target and it also had less armor protection. Consequently, it never fully succeeded supplanting the Y-wing as intended. The B-wing was also expensive to manufacture.
 
In particular, the rotating hull system made the B-wing a challenge to master. It also made the ship abnormally delicate; too many sharp turns could cause extreme strain to the spaceframe, and the cockpit rotation system could get stuck in one position. Only a few pilots were qualified to fly the ship before the Battle of Endor, resulting in a smaller number of B-wings present than expected. These difficulties forced the Rebel Alliance to invest in an upgraded Y-wing, rather than an entirely new ship, to fulfill their needs.”[/q]
 
Three things can be concluded with this paragraph. The first thing is the B-Wing is probably an agility 1 ship; second, the dial of the ship is really limited, with a lot of reds movements; and finally, the pilots possibly can’t use any Pilot Upgrade with it.
 
We also know that it has more shields than a Y-wing, but fewer Hull points. The data in the Wookipedia says the B-Wing has 125 shield points, the Y-wing has 75 and the X-wing only 50 points of shielding. So I guess the perfect representation of the B-wing would be 6 or 5 shield points, with a Hull of 4 points, quite a tank for a fighter.
 
So here is my tentative of creating an accurate B-Wing starfigther:
 
Primary Attack: 2 
Agility: 1
Hull: 4
Shield: 5
Action bar: Target Lock and Focus
Upgrade Bar: Missile, 2 Torpedoes and a BFG (just like Slave I for the Ion Cannon, Heavy Laser Cannon and the AutoBlaster).
 
The base point for the level 2 pilot would be 24 points without any upgrades (based in the Ship_stas_vs._Points on BGG).
 
So, what do you guys think about the stats of B-wing? What would you change? Who would be the pilots?


#2 Olethros

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:48 PM

I guess i did not know how to do quotes in the forum… Sorry for that!



#3 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:33 PM

Olethros said:

Primary Attack: 2 

Agility: 1
Hull: 4
Shield: 5
Action bar: Target Lock and Focus
Upgrade Bar: Missile, 2 Torpedoes and a BFG (just like Slave I for the Ion Cannon, Heavy Laser Cannon and the AutoBlaster).
 
The base point for the level 2 pilot would be 24 points without any upgrades (based in the Ship_stas_vs._Points on BGG).
 
So, what do you guys think about the stats of B-wing? What would you change? Who would be the pilots?

For the autoblaster, 4 dice rerolling blanks would be… very, very effective with Focus thrown in, and would probably warrant a cost in the same range as the Heavy Laser Cannon. The autoblaster "feels" to me like something that should be relatively cheap to deploy, in the 3-point range. So maybe more of a Cluster Missiles type of effect: make two attacks at Range 1-2, each with 2 Attack dice. I'd pay 3 points for that.

As far as the stats, I'd be inclined to decrease the Hull value to 3 to make it a bit cheaper--19-20 points for a hypothetical PS1 model. I'd go with approximately the same PIlot Skill structure as the Y-wing, with pilots at 2, 4, 5-6, and 8. 

Pilots might be Dagger Squadron as one of the lower-level pilots, Tien Nunb as the 5 or 6, and Keyan Farlander as the 8 (maybe with an offensive pseudo-Focus like Luke's defensive option).



#4 Olethros

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:03 PM

About the hull, i can get what you are saying, but we have to consider that it is the biggest fighter around… i think it would have more points then the x-wing..



#5 ForceM

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:47 AM

Olethros said:

 

 
So here is my tentative of creating an accurate B-Wing starfigther:
 
Primary Attack: 2 
Agility: 1
Hull: 4
Shield: 5
Action bar: Target Lock and Focus
Upgrade Bar: Missile, 2 Torpedoes and a BFG (just like Slave I for the Ion Cannon, Heavy Laser Cannon and the AutoBlaster).
 
The base point for the level 2 pilot would be 24 points without any upgrades (based in the Ship_stas_vs._Points on BGG).
 
So, what do you guys think about the stats of B-wing? What would you change? Who would be the pilots?

 

 

Although i see you made many right points and i am quite sure this is pretty accurate using the fluff to build the ship, i really fear this ship makes no sense at all. It is a Y-Wing with no ion turret and option for a cannon instead. And nobody plays Y-wings without Ion cannon turrets since it is not competitive. Now your ship is even pricier. If that is how the B-Wing is, it is totally unplayable. As durable as a Y-Wing and same firepower, plus less utility.

The real problem is that rebel ships cost a lot for having just the OPTION to take rockets, torps, turrets,… Then the options cost even more, a lot of them even being one use only. That is why they are totally outmatched by imperial ships. I don't know why game designers made the chouce to make you pay twice for mediocre options on useless ships really. But it is a real balance problem.

The 1 agility of a Y-Wing or B-Wing makes it even more unplayable. It went down fast despite a lot of hitpoints even in wave 1 against 2 dice attacking imperial ships. In a mirror match Rebel vs Rebel a Y-Wing wont hold out more than a turn and a half. And with Imps having access to 3 dice attackers it will be the same thing here. Now a 24+ point ship similar but less useful than a Y-Wing makes absolutely no sense, being ridiculously underpowered. As cool as the look of the B-Wing looks, nobody will ever play this.

2 base attack dice also strike me as insufficient even fluffwise. Sure the cannon makes out a lot of its firepower, but again will be a costly option. Therefore,it should probably have a huge amount of firepower even without the cannon, which it also had fluffwise. Also it seems B-Wings always have some kind of cannon mounted, unlike firesprays for example. Frankly to make it useful and bearable to play, perhaps dont give it cannon option but 3 or even 4 base attack dice. At least like that it would be unique and the 1 Agility would be less if a concern since you have an offensive powerhouse.

Alternatively make it a real tank (which it is), give it 2 agility since i remember it being not as clumsy as a Y-Wing in videogames. Evade would not be wrong either since it was manoeuvrable fluffwise if pilots could handle it right, which was difficult because of the rotating cockpit… hell even the Firespray has 2 agility and evade, and while perhaps it is in fact more agile, it is also a bigger target than a B-Wing if that counts for anything.

What i wanna say is it needs to differentiate more than with only a few options from a Y-Wing and be more competitive for balances sake really.

 



#6 Tobilee

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:53 AM

only two words. BARREL ROLL



#7 Endgame124

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:16 AM

My take on a B-Wing would look somethign like this (very similar to Olethros):

Primary Attack: 3
Secondary Attack (Fixed Arc Ion Cannons): 3
Agility: 1
Hull: 5
Shield: 5

Action Bar: Target Lock, Focus, Dual Fire*

*A ship chosing the dual fire action can fire a primary weapon and a secondary weapon in the same attack

Upgrade Bar:
2x Missile, 2x Torpedos, Droid

Points: 32 For PS 1.  (generics available at PS1, & 3.  Elite skill generic pilot at 4.  Named at 7 & 9)

Maneuver dial would be very similar to the Y-Wing but with more red maneuvers on sharp turns to really make the ship feel like a pig.  Of course, you could drop in a R2 unit to fix that, but then you've increased the ship price AND used the droid slot for extra maneuvering. 

Overall, this ship is a more heavily armed YT-1300, but without the access to crew and without the 360 fire.  In exchange, the B-Wing has more (directional) firepower, and really evil full volley if you stack enough buffs on the ship (say Dual Fire action, Target Lock From Dutch, and a Focus from Garvin).  With the stack of buffs, you could, potentially, fire 4 dice at RB1 from the primary, plus spend the target lock to fire cluster missiles.  OR you could fire 3 ion dice to help strip shields (and disable the ship) and then deal damage with the primary attack.  



#8 Rekkon

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:36 AM

If the A-wing does not get Barrel Roll, why should the B-wing?  Give it Evade instead, like that other B-wing thread suggested.  For my two centicreds, I think the autoblasters should be abstracted under the B-wing's primary weapon.  Perhaps something like a Firepower value of 2, but it rolls 1 extra attack die at range 1.  My take would be:

 

Firepower:  2*

Agility:  1

Hull:  4

Shield:  4

Action Bar:  Focus, Target Lock, Evade

Upgrades:  3x Torpedo, Cannon

*When performing a primary weapon attack at range 1, roll 1 extra attack die.

 

From what I understand of the squad point formula, this would make a pilot skill 2 B-wing only cost 18.25.  Round down or perhaps go to 19 for the increased attack at short range (though Mauler Mithel does not appear to cost any extra for it).  I kept total "hit points" the same as a Y-wing in an effort to keep it more affordable, though the shift to shields would make it a little more survivable.

Post-composition pre-post edit:  I like the idea of a Dual Fire action.



#9 barn34

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:15 AM

My approach to both the B-wing and TIE Bomber would be that they would be "medium" size ships.  That means the bases would be 1.5x the size of the smaller ships.  This will give a better representation of the ships size relative to their other fighter counterparts.  For pilots, here are some ideas I've had:

Keyan Farlander - skill 7 (maybe 8) (30 points)

Merrick Simms - skill 6 (maybe 7) (28 points)

Blue Squadron Pilot - skill 4 (25 points)

Dagger Squadron Pilot - skill 2 (23 points)

Upgrade Slots = proton torpedoes(x2), BFG(x1), [EPT - Merrick Simms, Keyan Farlander, Blus Squadron Pilot]

 

Ship specs:

Attack = 3

Agility = 2 

Hull = 4 (slightly less than the Y-wing)

Shield = 4 (slightly more than the Y-wing)

Actions = Focus, Target Lock, Barrell Roll (I like the barrell roll idea because it brings something new to the table for the rebels as well as gives a representation, in the games sense, of the rotating cockpit orientation capability - helps differentiate it from a Y-wing and gives you more tools to play with in building a squad, which is always good)

Movement Dial = 1 = LB, S(green), RB; 2 = LT(red), LB, S(green), RB, RT(red); 3 = LT(red), LB, S, RB, RT(red); 4 = S, KT(red)

this makes all turns red maneuvers, to represent the increased stress potential.  my solution to this is in a potential new ship upgrades included with the B-wing:

Gyroscopic Stabilizers  = you may treat all 1- and 2- speed bank maneuvers as green maneuvers (2 points) - makes this ship easy to eliminate stress, but at a higher deployment cost and the use of the available ship upgrade slot, so there's a trade off based on player preference.

also, a B-wing exclusive title: B-wing/E = (B-Wing Fighter only) Title: After you perform an attack that does not hit, immediately perform a primary weapon attack.  You cannot perform another attack this round. (3 points) - this gives the B-wing the gunner ability representing what the B-wing/E gained, so this duplicates the gunner crew upgrade ability at a reduced cose (so maybe it's 4 instead of 3) because it's B-wing exclusive.  again, makes the ship more dangerous, but at an increased deployment cost, creating flexibility in squad building.

I also like the autoblasters secondary weapon upgrade (and was also thinking along the same lines of allowing it to use the same BFGs as the Firespray in the 3 point ion cannon and 7 point heavy laser cannon)  My take on them was as follows:

Autoblasters = Attack: Attack 1 ship.  Immediately after rolling your attack dice, you must change all of your [critical hit] results to [hit] results.  {Attack = 5, Range = 1} - very similar to the Heavy Laser Cannon, but the opposite in implementation.  you still are not able to critical with it, but you get an additional dice at range 1, but you're only able to use it at range 1. (5 points)

another potential new ship upgrade ability that I like that could go with the B-wing is:

Targeting Computer = When attacking at range 2-3, you may change 1 of your [blank] results to a [hit] result. (3 points)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#10 Tobilee

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 08:36 AM

"Because the cockpit is surrounded by a unique gyro-stabilization system, the pilot always remains stationary, even as the rest of the ship rotates during flight."

If a rebel ship must have Barrel Roll. It is the B-wing. I'm pretty sure it will have it ;)

 



#11 Tobilee

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 08:37 AM

In fact the B-wing is a ship perfect to perform barrel rolls by design.



#12 MetaphoricDragon

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:51 AM

Another good option for a character B-Wing Pilot is Ten Numb, start giving us some more non human pilots (nearly forgot about Chewbacca in the Falcon),  technically, they could feasibly have Ackbar himself as a pilot as well



#13 CPTMcMurphy

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:11 AM

The B-wing has several weapon on it.  To look at a picture you will see 5 different weapon points meaning the ship will have a better attack profile then a Y-wing.  To add on to that, the wing is designed to rotate around the cockpit, for this reason I think the B-wing may have the Evade action.  Over all, the B-wing is designed to be a better Y-wing, a ship designed to take out larger enemy ships, but at the same time capable of dealing with fighter defence forces.  That said, I think the profile of the B-wing will look a little more like…

Attack:  3

Agility  1

Hull: 4

Shield:  5

Action Bar:  Target Lock, Focus, Evade

Upgrade Bar:  Medal (for a select few varients and unique named pilots), 2 Proton Torpedos, Cannon (as available for Slave I)

Much like the A-wing, the cheapest B-wing will have skill 1.  I believe that Fantasy Flight will set up the B-wing so that you can run 4 B-wins with Ion Cannon; the base cost for the cheapest B-wing will be 22 points.  In other words, 22 points for the ship plus the 3 points for the cannon.  This cost will also mean that you will never see more than 4 B-wings in a 100 point game.

Note:  Seeing how ships are pointed to date, I believe that Attack and Agility values play a bigger value in a ships cost than the Hull and Shields.  The YT-1300 doesn't fit this well, but that is do to the 360 primary firing arc.  That said, I don't see the value of the B-wing, even for unique pilots, exceeding 28 points.  



#14 Olethros

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:55 AM

 

"Although i see you made many right points and i am quite sure this is pretty accurate using the fluff to build the ship, i really fear this ship makes no sense at all. It is a Y-Wing with no ion turret and option for a cannon instead. And nobody plays Y-wings without Ion cannon turrets since it is not competitive. Now your ship is even pricier. If that is how the B-Wing is, it is totally unplayable. As durable as a Y-Wing and same firepower, plus less utility.

The real problem is that rebel ships cost a lot for having just the OPTION to take rockets, torps, turrets,… Then the options cost even more, a lot of them even being one use only. That is why they are totally outmatched by imperial ships. I don't know why game designers made the choice to make you pay twice for mediocre options on useless ships really. But it is a real balance problem."

I get where you coming from, but I tried to keep the points on the lower side, and be the closest to the original as I could. The B-Wing  is quite more resistant then the Y-Wing, give me 5 shields and 4 Hull any day, the 3 Shields and 5 Hull is really bad against crits, so I guess the B-wing is a better tank.

I followed closely the formula for creating the points of the ship so I guess, the only way it could be cheaper is if it was more fragile. About the cost of rebel ships I totally agree with you. In the movies and in the comics we only see the Alliance using ships with full upgrades, every X-wing  with protons and r2 units, every B-Wing with heavy lase cannons and etc… But I guess the way the game was made was kind of unbalanced in that sense, its way costly for the rebels.

"2 base attack dice also strike me as insufficient even fluffwise. Sure the cannon makes out a lot of its firepower, but again will be a costly option. Therefore,it should probably have a huge amount of firepower even without the cannon, which it also had fluffwise. Also it seems B-Wings always have some kind of cannon mounted, unlike firesprays for example. Frankly to make it useful and bearable to play, perhaps dont give it cannon option but 3 or even 4 base attack dice. At least like that it would be unique and the 1 Agility would be less if a concern since you have an offensive powerhouse.

Alternatively make it a real tank (which it is), give it 2 agility since i remember it being not as clumsy as a Y-Wing in videogames. Evade would not be wrong either since it was manoeuvrable fluffwise if pilots could handle it right, which was difficult because of the rotating cockpit… hell even the Firespray has 2 agility and evade, and while perhaps it is in fact more agile, it is also a bigger target than a B-Wing if that counts for anything."

Yes, I understand your point, but fluffy wise and costly wise it would be difficult to alter the main gun. The primary lase r the B-Wing have is the tiny one in each wing, making it worse than the main weapon of the X-wing and similar with the Tie Fighters and Y-wings. If I were to add the Heavy Laser Cannon as the main gun of the B-Wing the point cost would really rise: 26 points for 3 attack dice and 31 for 4 attack dice (considering pilot level 2), so I guess giving the heavy-laser as a possible upgrade is the best thing I can do.

About the agility, the B-Wing is actually the slowest rebel fighter, having a top speed that reach a little less then the Y-Wing. So I guess in this point it would be pretty hard to justify the agility 2 or an evade action (and both of them would put the cost at 27 points for the ability 2 pilot).



#15 ForceM

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:42 PM

In fact in X-Wing Alliance it was faster and much more manoeuvrable than a Y-Wing. It also had 3 lasers plus a n ion cannon at least. So X-Wing firepower is given. I don't know how close to "reality" in sense of what did Mr. Lucas intend this game is.

And if it has to be slow, make any 3 manoeuver red but add all the 1-2 manoeuvers since it should manoeuver a lot better than Y-Wings even if slow.

Agility 2 can be argued about, but the rotating around the cockpit stuff makes it eligible for barrel roll and evade (hell if even a firespray and the Falcon have or can get evade…). I also can't stress how important it would be to have a ship that has better defense than a Y-Wing since this one will not have a turret.

With all due respect to what is on Wookiepedia, but i think it is more important to balance this game, and as i see it Rebels have quite a hard time atm. A B-wing with 1 Agility and 2 primary weapon will be unplayable, especially for that point cost. And for the ship creation tool i jonestly think hull and shield points are overrated since they are worthless paired to agility 1… They should be costed in relation to your agility value and evade possibility!

 



#16 Tobilee

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:07 AM

B-WIng:

2 - Primary fire

2 - Defense

3 - Hull

4 - Shields

Actions: Focus, Target lock, Barrel roll.

Options: Cannon (heavy laser or ion), 1 missile, (MAYBE 1 proton).

 



#17 ForceM

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:08 AM

Tobilee said:

 

B-WIng:

2 - Primary fire

2 - Defense

3 - Hull

4 - Shields

Actions: Focus, Target lock, Barrel roll.

Options: Cannon (heavy laser or ion), 1 missile, (MAYBE 1 proton).

 

 

 

Well at least this makes some sense, but only if this doesn't cost too much.

In this config you have some survivability, but this needs a heavy laser cannon desperately.

The A-Wing is a better missile ship than this clearly. The X-Wing has more firepower. If you want an ion ship take the Y-Wing as its 360 degrees are the only good thing about it anyway. So this needs the HLC or an autoblaster if they create such an option. And if that is over 25 points with a cannon installed for a skill 1 ship i doubt it will be any good.

The problem with the expensive secondaries is that you get no refund for the firepower your ship already has. So you buy 2 attack dice on a Y-Wing that you hardly ever use and pay a lot for the only useful option it has anyway. Making it an overcosted and underpowered ship in the end.

Another question is why a ship with a gunner and a pilot cant shoot both its weapons in one turn?? Also Y-Wings had the options to lock their turret in a direction, also forward. Why would a pilot not fix his weapon forward and unleash both guns in one turn on one target. You know i think this makes no sense. Because in the end an X-Wing has a lot more firepower than a Y-Wing which is arguably wrong if a Y-Wing fires both weapons if he has anything in his front arc. They had decent firepower also fluffwise!

I know this would get very problematic with the Firespray. 3+4 dice in one turn would be brutal indeed so this would need some balancing. But otherwise it would make perfect sense.

For your information, we houseruled and playtested the Y-Wing this way in some games. And i can tell you this made the games much more balanced. The 7-8 Tie swarm still defeated this, but not EVERY GAME, as it was when we playtested for officially ruled tournament.

I think i might open a Thread, perhaps with a poll if possible and make the proposition to rerule this.



#18 Endgame124

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:06 AM

After reading through the B-Wing description again, I think I may have been wrong on the first pass on how to build the ship.  I think there are a few major points to keep in mind from the B-Wing Description:

*It has heavier shields than the Y-Wing, but less Armor
*It isn't very maneuverable - no more so than the Y-Wing
*Its the most heavily armed fighter for the Rebellion and is designed to take down capital ships

So, at the very least, stats it should have are:

4 hull (less than a Y-Wing)
4 sheilds or 5 shields (More than a Y-Wing)
1 agility (Same as a Y-Wing)
3 primary (More than a Y-Wing, though not sufficient to show the ship being able to down capital ships)

Upgrades: It should probably have 2 proton torp slots, (same as a Y-Wing), a cannon icon (instead of the ion turret), and a droid icon (same as a Y-Wing)

Maneuver Dial: Same as Y-Wing, but more red options.

At this point, the ship isn't substantially different than a Y-Wing.  If we go with 4 shields, the only changes are: -1 Hull, +1 shield, +1 primary, so the base cost of the ship should probably be around 20 points for a PS 1 pilot.  However, we haven't gotten to the action bar yet.

Action Bar: Target Lock, Focus, Coordinate Fire *

*Coordiated Fire: When this ship attacks with a primary weapon, it may make a secondary weapon attack.

This action bar should probably be worth 1 point since it adds an ability over the Y-Wing, making the ship 21 points total for PS1.  In all honesty, you're going to want to add the Ion Cannon at a minimum, so the B-Wing will really start at 24 points, if not 28 points for a Heavy Laser Cannon.  

The Pilot Skill options should probably be 1, 4 (elite and +3 points), and 2 named pilots.  The reason is that the B-Wing is hard to fly and the first batch of B-Wings were all prototypes.  Call the PS1 Dagger Squadron, and PS4 Nova Squadron.  Having an elite option on a generic pilot lets you add Expert Handling if you really want it for the barrel roll, but doesn't increase the base cost of the ship with it.



#19 Olethros

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:05 AM

Endgame124 said:

4 hull (less than a Y-Wing)
4 sheilds or 5 shields (More than a Y-Wing)
1 agility (Same as a Y-Wing)
3 primary (More than a Y-Wing, though not sufficient to show the ship being able to down capital ships)

Upgrades: It should probably have 2 proton torp slots, (same as a Y-Wing), a cannon icon (instead of the ion turret), and a droid icon (same as a Y-Wing)

Maneuver Dial: Same as Y-Wing, but more red options.

Attack Dice are really expensive… Point Wise this Ship is already at 24 points for a level 1 Pilot, ignoring the invented Upgrade… That's the big problem, to fly a named pilot of this ship without any upgrades you're going to pay more then 30 points. 

I use the Ship_Stats_vs._poits made by the guys in BGG, and it's really precise about the costing of each ship in the game, I would advise using that to create your versions of the ship.



#20 ForceM

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:29 AM

Well that's a lot more like it if you ask me. The coordinated fire invention is good also. Still lacks defense but at least an offensive powerhouse and different from the Y-Wing. Still for me the rotating-the-ship-around-the-cockpit means to me either it has barrel roll or evade. Hell every single imperial ship has this, even the huge Firespray. And they dont cost the world after all!

Just a Pity the Y-Wing can't get coordinated fire anymore… 

Or just rerule turrets and cannons to be able to shoot in conjunction with primary weapons anyway perhaps. Like that the B-Wing gets no special rule and does not cost more either.






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