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Techmarine Questions


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#1 puenboy

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:29 AM

1.) Is attacking with a wielded weapon and a servo arm dual wielding?

2.) Servo harness has 2 arms, so does that mean that I can put a breaching augger on one and use the normal servo arm for the other?

3.) Say, I use dual attack with Omnissiah axe and Breaching Augger, then reaction attack with servo arm. Is that valid?

4.) Where do I find stats on more cybernetics other than Core rulebook and Rites of Battles? Since I've seen people talking about bionics I've never heard of before.

5.) I also caught wind that the Breaching Augger deals 2d10 instead of 4d10. Is this right, or is the book right?

6.) The Artificer Armor Signature Wargear at rank 4- do I need Hero to wear it?

7.) Do I have to requisition Servo Arms/Harnesses and Breaching Augur every deployment?



#2 puenboy

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:26 PM

More questions:

Does a breaching augger have to be mounted on a  servo harness?

If not, why the hell would anyone wield a chains word when they can get a weapon that hits roughly 4 times harder?



#3 Decessor

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 01:17 AM

1) Yes, if you wield both as part of a Multiple Attacks action. No if the servoharness is used as a reaction.

2) No. The breaching augur is another tool on the servo-harness.

3) No, because you've already used the servo-harness in combat that round.

4) There are a few relic bionics in First Founding.

5) Read the Errata available on the Deathwatch website. I strongly recommend that Deathwatch groups use the errated weapon stats, I find them much saner.

6) I would say yes since it's available so much earlier.

7) Servo-harness can be removed. The forgemaster in my campaign usually deploys with a jump pack to keep up with his brothers.

8) As the book says, it can be deployed on a harness (which would replace the servo-harness for the mission in your case) or as a cybernetic implant replacing an arm. It cannot be just carried.

9) You can't parry with it and unless it's built into you it will take both arms to wield it. Your flexibility goes out the window and Emperor help you if you have to climb anything. Personally, I'd add penalties to hit mobile enemies because it's an awkward breaching tool, not a purpose built weapon.

 

I hope that helps.



#4 puenboy

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:21 AM

After reading the Errata, it seems that Techmarines need only distinguished to wear Artificer armors. Can you also find specific rules that disallow servo harness from using different weapons? While it says that you cannot  use the same servo arm to attack and reaction attack on the same turn, it specifically states that "Additionally, the Techmarine may use his reaction to make a single shot or strike with any one weapon on the harness" without follow up clauses like "unless the Techmarine has used a weapon on the harness on his turn.", which implies that you can say, fire a Bolter, the harness plasma pistol dual wielding as a full action then use the flamer as a reaction. I have checked the errata to see if they have clarified the rule, but there has been no changes as of yet.

EDIT: And since the Breacher is another tool on a servo harness, does that mean that I can, say, fit as many Bulkhead shears and Breachers as I want as long as I don't exceed weight limit and req cost?



#5 KommissarK

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:27 AM

WIth the Artificer Armour, no renown rank is required to "Wear it." The issue is acquiring it. Techmarines have access to the talent that just lets them take it.

With the harness, I'll admit, I'm kinda hazy on it, but if it reads as you say "While it says that you cannot  use the same servo arm to attack and reaction attack on the same turn," if it says you can't attack and do the reaction, thats pretty clear, and I don't think two weapon weilding is a way to sneak around that.



#6 puenboy

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:36 AM

I don't mean attacking with the servo arm in the same turn. I mean since you have w servo arms on a harness, you ought to be able to hit with one, then use the reaction on the other?



#7 herichimo

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 08:36 AM

puenboy said:

1.) Is attacking with a wielded weapon and a servo arm dual wielding?

2.) Servo harness has 2 arms, so does that mean that I can put a breaching augger on one and use the normal servo arm for the other?

3.) Say, I use dual attack with Omnissiah axe and Breaching Augger, then reaction attack with servo arm. Is that valid?

4.) Where do I find stats on more cybernetics other than Core rulebook and Rites of Battles? Since I've seen people talking about bionics I've never heard of before.

5.) I also caught wind that the Breaching Augger deals 2d10 instead of 4d10. Is this right, or is the book right?

6.) The Artificer Armor Signature Wargear at rank 4- do I need Hero to wear it?

7.) Do I have to requisition Servo Arms/Harnesses and Breaching Augur every deployment?

Meant to reply to this after class last night, but ended up forgetting.

1. Was going to say 'yes - except' like decessor, but the rules state servo arms may be used either as a standard attack or reaction attack and a servo arm may only make 1 attack per round (pg. 177). So you cannot use a servo arm as a multiple attack action (which isn't a standard attack).

2. An Augur may be attached to a servo harness. As it is large enough to be a servitor limb it should take up at least one servo arm. I'm sure you can add it as an extra arm (harnesses being complicated as they are) but I'd make my techmarine sig wargear it or have him replace an already available arm, tool or servo (why create another arm socket you'll only use for one mission?). Any modifications should require a tech-use test, failures should give penalties to its use (up to GM) and great successes could give some small bonuses.

3. I don't like the idea of using an Augur with multiple attack actions. I would rule it may only be used as a standard attack (it is too much like a servo arm in its own harness or on a servo harness), just seems more sensible than swinging a giant vibrating drill in 360 arcs to hit someone 3 times. If you absolutely wanted to play exactly according to written rules, then your example is valid (as the Augur is technically not a servo arm, although it is attached to a servo harness like one). The game does state some things are impossible and common sense should be applied, personnaly I feel common sense says the augur should work like a servo arm.

4. First Founding is the only location I know which has DW specific cybernetics. DH and RT have some cybernetics in them not in the DW books, but I would only allow just a few of those options to a space marine.

5. Errata weapon damage is a good stop-gap. Scaling DH rules to space marines gets rediculous pretty quickly. Low UT and ARM has weapons like the orginal bolter stats being devastating to everyone, once UT and ARM gets really high the only thing which can hurt you are anti-tank weapons. Personnaly I'd like to see armour rules revamped. The errata weapons fix some of these scaling issues. As for the Augur, its supposed to be used to breach walls, not smack gretchin. Its change was probably to make it less desirable to min/max munchkins.

6. No you do not, you built it yourself, once you got it you can put it on. I would not allow it to have any armour histories though, similar to Mk 8 armour rules. You just finished building it pretty much from scratch, its not been in battle or suffered numerous repairs etc. which gives other armours their personalities.

7. You get a servo arm as a tech marine, you always have it. You have to requesition or sig wargear a servo harness unless you take the Servo-harness Integration talent. With the talent you get the harness system, but not a billion arms pre-attached. Anything over the basic stuff I'd have elite advances with tech use skills to atach them (obiviously your first arm is attached from the start, perhaps give up to 500 xp worth of req [20] for extra arms for free when you buy the skill). Augur you need to requesition each mission unless you sig wargear the item. Then you can take it whenever you want to.



#8 puenboy

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:04 PM

 

Thank you. Now I have to ask the first question again, but with the servo harness. The book says that the harness is more sophisticated and can be used for multiple attack actions. Does that mean that I cannot dual wield say, a chainsword and a servo arm, but I can dual wield a chainsword and a servo arm that's attached to a servo harness?

As for the common sense, I plan to dual wield, so it wouldn't be swinging the gigantic drill 3 times on one round, but attacking with the lighter weapon first then the drill



#9 Decessor

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:24 AM

Generally you only get to make one attack with a given weapon per turn. The servo-harness is a single item but you have a point in that it has multiple components. It hasn't been clarified.

In theory you could have multiple breachers, but how many of them could you use even if multiple attacks were possible with the servo-harness? Plus there is the undefined but in game nuisance of having too much bulk on the servo-harness. I'd cap it at one personally.



#10 herichimo

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:58 AM

puenboy said:

 

 

Thank you. Now I have to ask the first question again, but with the servo harness. The book says that the harness is more sophisticated and can be used for multiple attack actions. Does that mean that I cannot dual wield say, a chainsword and a servo arm, but I can dual wield a chainsword and a servo arm that's attached to a servo harness?

As for the common sense, I plan to dual wield, so it wouldn't be swinging the gigantic drill 3 times on one round, but attacking with the lighter weapon first then the drill

 

 

Yes you are correct. With a servo harness you can now use multiple attack actions such as Two Weapon Wielder and/or swift or lightning attack subject to all the normal rules for melee attacks (which means you need the appropriate talents). They still do not qualify as extra arms though, as far as I know, so you don't gain any additional attacks from that trait.

For a techmarine without TWW, swift, or lightning he can make 2 attacks (including the servo arm) using two weapon wielding rules, each at -30; or 1 standard attack as normal. With TWW his two weapon wielder attacks are -10; but still no more than 2 attacks. With swift attack he can make 2 attacks with any 1 weapon (including the servo arm) but if he wanted to use two weapon fighting he'd be subject to TWW rules (WS penalties etc.).

I'll just caveat, servo arms are not be able to hold other weapons to make attacks, just look at those vise grips… They just don't have the dexterity to hold them, so no thunderhammer attacks made by servo arms.






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