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reaching melee combat, is it feasible?


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#1 Yepesnopes

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:29 AM

I am still finishing the reading of the book, and I haven't played yet the game. So this is a theoretical question.

Since the maximum number of manoeuvres is fixed to 2 per round, is it feasible to reach melee combat in a "classical front charge" in an open ground?

If for example two contenders meet each other at long range, contender A only with melee weapons and contender B with a range weapon.

Supose A has the initiative, he uses the free manoeuvre to move once and he foregoes his action to move once more, he is now at medium from contender B. Now is B's turn, he is at medium range from A and he decides to fire his weapon. Afterwards, he uses his free manoeuvre to move backwards, plus spends two strain to obtain a manoeuvre and move once more. A and B are again back to long distance.

A trys to get close again by moving twice, he is at medium again. During B's turn he fires (uses any rolled advantages to recover strain for example) and moves backwards two range distances again.

And so on and so on.

Ok, I understand in EotE is a bad idea runnig around without any ranged weapon, and it is also a bad idea to engage an opponent in an open field, but from the mechanical point of view, is it correct the situation I propose?

 

Another "wierd" situation arises if this time contender A ambushes contender B anf they star for example at medium distnace. A uses his free manoeubre to get to close and then spends two strain to engage B. Then he attacks with his remaining action (and uses any advantage to recover strain for example). B wants to flee from the combat so he disengages, then he suffers 2 strain to get to medium and then he fires (and uses any rolled advantage to recover strain). During A's turn, he repeats his previous turn, moves, engages B and attacks. And so on and so on, can't B flee? 

Cheers,

Yepes


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#2 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:31 PM

Well, one thing to keep in mind is that only Nemesis NPCs can really spend Strain.  Minions and Henchmen suffer Wounds when they suffer Strain damage due to not having a Strain Threshold.

As for the first set-up, if starting at Long Range, then the advantage is to the person with the blaster, not too different from how it'd be in real life, particularly if the shooter already has a blaster in hand.

However, if the shooter is Minion or Henchman, they're not going to be able to recover Strain as you said, since they don't take Strain damage due to a lack of Strain Threshold.  So they can only try that trick so many times before they run periously close to their Wound Threshold.

A PC could do that quite often (provided they're willing to use their Advantages for nothing but buying back the Strain cost), but I'd call that a failing on the GM in designing the encounter to not give their melee-based baddie a way to get into close quarters with the PCs.  Long Range is noted in the Beta as being further than a few dozen meters, or roughly greater than 4 American Football fields in length from one person to the next.

On the second set-up, that'd be correct, that B pretty much couldn't flee, but again, that's only so long as both parties can keep spending the Strain to keep taking those extra maneuvers; see my point above about Minions, Henchman, and lack of Strain Thresholds.  And all it'd take is a few rolls of "Successes but no Advantages" or spending those Advantages on things other than Strain recovery (such as critical hits or other weapon qualities) to make taking those extra manuevers much more costly than they might seem.

Not saying the premises you put forth are entirely wrong, just that there's extra circumstances that also need to be considered.


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#3 Droma

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:37 PM

The obvious answer is you simply leave, get your spaceship, and shoot a proton torpedo at him.



#4 LethalDose

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:41 PM

Yepesnopes said:

I am still finishing the reading of the book, and I haven't played yet the game. So this is a theoretical question.

Since the maximum number of manoeuvres is fixed to 2 per round, is it feasible to reach melee combat in a "classical front charge" in an open ground?

If for example two contenders meet each other at long range, contender A only with melee weapons and contender B with a range weapon.

Supose A has the initiative, he uses the free manoeuvre to move once and he foregoes his action to move once more, he is now at medium from contender B. Now is B's turn, he is at medium range from A and he decides to fire his weapon. Afterwards, he uses his free manoeuvre to move backwards, plus spends two strain to obtain a manoeuvre and move once more. A and B are again back to long distance.

A trys to get close again by moving twice, he is at medium again. During B's turn he fires (uses any rolled advantages to recover strain for example) and moves backwards two range distances again.

And so on and so on.

Ok, I understand in EotE is a bad idea runnig around without any ranged weapon, and it is also a bad idea to engage an opponent in an open field, but from the mechanical point of view, is it correct the situation I propose?

 

Another "wierd" situation arises if this time contender A ambushes contender B anf they star for example at medium distnace. A uses his free manoeubre to get to close and then spends two strain to engage B. Then he attacks with his remaining action (and uses any advantage to recover strain for example). B wants to flee from the combat so he disengages, then he suffers 2 strain to get to medium and then he fires (and uses any rolled advantage to recover strain). During A's turn, he repeats his previous turn, moves, engages B and attacks. And so on and so on, can't B flee? 

Cheers,

Yepes

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Long answer: Use cover.


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#5 Jegergryte

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:57 PM

You can also go for the chase mechanic, its not something that automatically happens or is triggered by any mechanical thing, its a narrative choice where the fleeing party gets to initiate a chase, be it running through crowded, narrow, winding streets or something… I'd basically let someone who spent their whole round on a "flee manoeuvre" initiate the chase mechanic - be it a double manoeuvre and an athletics check or something…


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#6 LethalDose

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:28 PM

LethalDose said:

 

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Use cover.

 

 

Upon reflection, I must acknowledge my "long answer" is simply pretty d@mned stupid.  

Using maneuvers to move and then meaneuver to cover lets the opponent just use one maneuver to move away, unless you can stick him against a barrier.  If you can use cover, do so and it'll help keep ya alive, but it'll slow you down on your approach.  Running in maybe the most effective way to close the gap.

The trick is to get to medium.  Once there, you can maneuver to short, then maneuver to engage, then attack.  It costs strain, but strain is easy to replace. In light of what I just posted, it seems getting to medium on the start of your turn is probably the tricky part.

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#7 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:57 AM

Why not leverage the initiative system? Let the ranged guy go first, then move in. THEN take the first initiative the next round. 

That also has the added benefit of forcing them to come closer to you if they don't have a weapon with long range (which is more likely than not).


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#8 aramis

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:02 AM

Whichever side rolls worse on their attack gets the advantage… At range, if you've got open terrain, you can just keep going, as long as no-one shoots, no one closes. But if you shoot and miss, and get two threat, the other side either potentially closes or retreats unmatched. It's inobvious, but it's the way it works.



#9 Droma

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:25 AM

Doc, the Weasel said:

Why not leverage the initiative system? Let the ranged guy go first, then move in. THEN take the first initiative the next round. 

That also has the added benefit of forcing them to come closer to you if they don't have a weapon with long range (which is more likely than not).



That works in all cases except when the enemy is first in the initiative order.



#10 aramis

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:16 PM

Droma said:

 

Doc, the Weasel said:

 

Why not leverage the initiative system? Let the ranged guy go first, then move in. THEN take the first initiative the next round. 

That also has the added benefit of forcing them to come closer to you if they don't have a weapon with long range (which is more likely than not).

 



That works in all cases except when the enemy is first in the initiative order.

 

 

 

Double defensive stance… then let him shoot. Now, you're harder still to hit AND go after him.



#11 New Zombie

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

it's situational, but if you don't need to take out the long range shooter leave the other way. perhaps hiding and laying an ambush.






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