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#1 Arfi

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:01 AM

 

If Taxation is revealed when the player is on the crown of command, and he dosen't have 2 gold he will be thrown to jail???
Bounty hunter (winning all ties) and alchemist in the city (buying and selling potions, every round in the city he can earn 6 gold)…this expansion looks for me a bit unbalanced.

P.S. Sorry for my english ;p


#2 frogemoth

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:14 AM

I don't have an answer to your question but you bring a valid point concerning the Alchemist, if potions are magic items he can buy them for 1 gold each and sell them for 3 gold each, this character is already too powerful he doesn't need cheat like these, we will definitely not permit this in our games.



#3 The_Warlock

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:01 AM

Arfi said:

If Taxation is revealed when the player is on the crown of command, and he dosen't have 2 gold he will be thrown to jail???
 
Yes, but he needs to be of the alignment that is currently being taxed. Being thrown in Jail from the Crown of Command is absurd but some cards make it happen (Corrupt Sheriff, Jailer, Taxation, possibly others).
 
Arfi said:
Bounty hunter (winning all ties) and alchemist in the city (buying and selling potions, every round in the city he can earn 6 gold)…this expansion looks for me a bit unbalanced.
 
1) Bounty Hunter + Full Plate is a crashing combo.
2) Scribe Follower + Spellbook allows infinite cycling of the same Spell every round, which means continuous Temporal Warp, Random, Life Tap, Syphon Strength, Strength, Craft, Healing, Blessed and many others. It's a crazy combo.
3) Alchemist can go into the Magic Emporium, buy a Scroll for 1G (Magic Object), turn it into 3 Gold and repeat the process in the same turn, until he's gained all available Gold, 2 Magic Rings, Spellbook, Crystal Sceptre and everything else he can carry. That's an overwhelming combo.
 
The Alchemist's glitch might have escaped in the design phase. Let's hope a FAQ will fix it soon.
 
The other combos involve cards of the City Expansion and were probably meant to be so. That's the ominuos sensation I have.
 
Besides that, I'm happy with the City cards, gameplay, strategic options and thematic feeling.


#4 talismanamsilat

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:49 PM

Those 3 combo's are well broken. Design team missed those for sure lol

Ell.



#5 Dam

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:13 PM

The_Warlock said:

3) Alchemist can go into the Magic Emporium, buy a Scroll for 1G (Magic Object), turn it into 3 Gold and repeat the process in the same turn, until he's gained all available Gold, 2 Magic Rings, Spellbook, Crystal Sceptre and everything else he can carry. That's an overwhelming combo.

 
Though I do wonder if they intended the shopping to be a single "event", meaning you buy everything at once and if you start doing something else, can't continue to shop that turn.

"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#6 The_Warlock

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:33 PM

Dam said:

The_Warlock said:

 

3) Alchemist can go into the Magic Emporium, buy a Scroll for 1G (Magic Object), turn it into 3 Gold and repeat the process in the same turn, until he's gained all available Gold, 2 Magic Rings, Spellbook, Crystal Sceptre and everything else he can carry. That's an overwhelming combo.

 
 
Though I do wonder if they intended the shopping to be a single "event", meaning you buy everything at once and if you start doing something else, can't continue to shop that turn.

This may be a way to fix the Alchemist problem, but as a general rule it doesn't exist and will have an impact on well-established mechanics.

If you remember our discussions 4 years ago, we talked about the Merchant in the Village selling a Hearth Rune for 3G, buying a Sword or Helmet for 2G and exchanging it at the same time with an Armour that's worth 4G. This sounded legal, thematic and interesting. Should they rule that any action or use of a special ability interrupts a "shopping event", then we have to fully reconsider the Merchant's options in the Village.



#7 Dam

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:27 AM

Looking at the Merchant's card, I would still allow that combo. He is using his ability (which has two parts), but isn't using any of the three options (swap, sell or Blacksmith) more than once and none at the same time or interrupting another option. Only argument I could see being made is that the Merchant would have to complete his ability (swap and/or sell) before doing the Blacksmith.

But seeing it as different from the Alchemist combo as he buys, alchemy, buys again, alchemy, etc. Merchant is only using the Blacksmith once, while the Alchemist is all but visiting the shop multiple times in one turn.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#8 Croonos

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:45 AM

The_Warlock said:

1) Bounty Hunter + Full Plate is a crashing combo.
2) Scribe Follower + Spellbook allows infinite cycling of the same Spell every round, which means continuous Temporal Warp, Random, Life Tap, Syphon Strength, Strength, Craft, Healing, Blessed and many others. It's a crazy combo.
3) Alchemist can go into the , buy a Scroll for 1G (Magic Object), turn it into 3 Gold and repeat the process in the same turn, until he's gained all available Gold, 2 Magic Rings, Spellbook, Crystal Sceptre and everything else he can carry. That's an overwhelming combo.


1) IMO Bounty Hunter use Full Plate when defeated so he can't use his abbility after that.
2) Powerfull combo but you have to find Scribe first… It will be very helpfull when appear at the begining of the game. But… we have lots of expansions at the moment and playing with all of them cause problem that characters growing slower because it is difficult to find usefull items. I think such cards as Scribe are impotrant to finish the game in an applicable time.
3) I think encountering the shop is buying objects one time per turn then Alchemist can use his abbility and his turn ends. From City rules: "If a character begins his turn in a shop, he cannot re-enter that shop during that turn." So he have to make a full circle in the City to encounter Magic Emporium again.

 



#9 Nidhögg

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:05 AM

1. Well, he still have to roll 4-6 for a win :P

2. Very powerful indeed. But remember that you have to get the spellbook or be a specific character for this to work.

3. I don't think you can buy more than whats in stock. So first you buy all the scrolls that's in stock, then you alchemise them down. After that your shopping turn is over and you have to walk another lap around the City to do this again.

 

There's bound to be somethings broken with a game as big as Talisman. When we played the Dragon expansion we discovered another broken combo. It was with the Conjurer and a Place where you could discard a spell to take one dragonscale from a Draconic Lord. So the Conjurer discards a spell, gains a scale. Next round she gains a spell, moves, takes the Place-card with her and encounters it again to gain a scale…

 



#10 frogemoth

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:29 AM

I thought you could get out of a shop and get in the next turn assuming you didn't roll a 1 for your movement, so for the Alchemist he can buy everything, alchemize it all and next turn do it again.



#11 Nidhögg

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:40 AM

frogemoth said:

I thought you could get out of a shop and get in the next turn assuming you didn't roll a 1 for your movement, so for the Alchemist he can buy everything, alchemize it all and next turn do it again.

Assuming you rolled a 1 for your movement when you left the shop, I guess you can re-enter it the turn after that. But if you roll higher you can't backtrack. The streets are one direction only…



#12 The_Warlock

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

Nidhögg said:

 

frogemoth said:

 

I thought you could get out of a shop and get in the next turn assuming you didn't roll a 1 for your movement, so for the Alchemist he can buy everything, alchemize it all and next turn do it again.

 

Assuming you rolled a 1 for your movement when you left the shop, I guess you can re-enter it the turn after that. But if you roll higher you can't backtrack. The streets are one direction only…

 

 

With Poltergeist, Haunting Poltergeist Spell or Terrance Pet Follower, this is possible every 2 turns, even if the shopping is interrupted by the use of special abilities, which may be a solution but it's not a rule.

The Alchemist is a powerful or overly powerful character because he doesn't use his ability at a determined time, but can use it as he sees fit. It would have worked better if he could alchemize things and create potions only at the start of his turn, unfortunately it's not that way.

 



#13 Nidhögg

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:24 AM

Yes it's powerful but he doesn't win the game just because he has all the gold in the game. Well depending on the ending off course…



#14 Bolithio

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:19 PM

And the skill of the players who are playing against him. Many of these exploits can be easily squashed by effective opponents.



#15 Bolithio

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:40 AM

 After thinking about this, I think the key is not letting the gray area of when the Alchemist can alchemise get too big. Yes he can use this ability more or less at will, but you cant do two things at once. If your shopping, you cant alchemise while you are buying things. But you could immediately before and/or immediately after.  Once youve declared your alchimise, you cease to be shopping and cant buy something becuase you flipped it into more gold. That should prevent this perceived exploit of the alchemist.



#16 Uvatha

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:35 AM

Bolithio said:

 After thinking about this, I think the key is not letting the gray area of when the Alchemist can alchemise get too big. Yes he can use this ability more or less at will, but you cant do two things at once. If your shopping, you cant alchemise while you are buying things. But you could immediately before and/or immediately after.  Once youve declared your alchimise, you cease to be shopping and cant buy something becuase you flipped it into more gold. That should prevent this perceived exploit of the alchemist.

Yep. I think there is no prob thinking that way with timing and shopping and alchemising.



#17 Uvatha

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:47 AM

Bolithio said:

 After thinking about this, I think the key is not letting the gray area of when the Alchemist can alchemise get too big. Yes he can use this ability more or less at will, but you cant do two things at once. If your shopping, you cant alchemise while you are buying things. But you could immediately before and/or immediately after.  Once youve declared your alchimise, you cease to be shopping and cant buy something becuase you flipped it into more gold. That should prevent this perceived exploit of the alchemist.

Yep. I think there is no prob thinking that way with timing and shopping and alchemising.



#18 Freejack

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:35 PM

To the original question, I thought it unbalanced it to have someone not in the city be able to suck someone back into the city from anywhere so I ruled that such things only affect the targetted character when in The City and that if the outside character landed on the City corner or returned to the city, he would immediately be affected (thrown in jail).

Carl






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