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Lets talk Jinteki…


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#1 MethodicDiscord

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:31 AM

Now that What Lies Ahead and Trace amount have given Jinteki the tools to be competitve, i'm curious to see what people are playing.

Are people playing fairly standard or have they found neat tricks beyond Ice Wall/Trick of Light  or Chum vs Femme?



#2 profligate

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:13 PM

Jinteki has lots of tricks.  I quite like Chum + Data Mine.  But their biggest issue is being broke.  So ***** in solid money and Jinteki can rely on their own cards to do everything else.

Currently, I'm playing around with Amazon Industrial Zone and Security Subcontract in Jinteki: Replicating Perfection.  I'm also using Akitaro Watanabe and Braintrust to decrease rez costs.  My theory is to keep one or two must-break or bad on-encounter ICE on all central servers, rotating things out as the runner finds solutions to them;  Security Subcontract helps here to keep the economy afloat, as can multiple Amazon Industrial Zones.  (Note: regions are one-per-server, not Unique.)  So far I haven't gotten this to work very well, but I've also not had much testing in yet.

I've also seen Jinteki ***** in Adonis Campaign, use all 2 point agendas to guarantee max damage from Jinteki: Personal Evolution and then just pile on every bit of extra net damage possible.  This works out resonably well because Chum and Data Mine are both very cheap to rez, and Snare! just sits in HQ/R&D awaiting access with no click cost.



#3 Suka044

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:45 PM

i still like jinteki v1 instead of v2. with v1 seems like you can ambush them more easily and if the runner doesn't fall for it you use trick of light. also use shipment from kaguyato get some free advancment tokens. 



#4 Defenstrator

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:17 AM

Really? I would have thought Jinteki version 2 would be the better Ambush. Hard defend the core servers to bring the pain knowing they have to hit their first, then fill the lightly defended outer servers with an equal mix of Agendas and Ambushes. The Personal Secretary would be quite nasty in this situation since they must have prograns to take on the heavily defended core.

 

Mix in Trick of the Light and Shipment from Kaguya to flip tokens around and it seems like a decent bluffing deck.

 

Of course me nub so what do I know. If this has any fatal flaws I'd be happy to find out before trying to build it.



#5 sharoth

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:10 AM

The main problem with Jinteki Replicating Perfection is that you need a really nasty outermost ice protecting each of the main servers, cause they can just jack out after the first ice and take on your remotes. That being said, the corps have to spend an additional click to look what cards are in your remote server unless they exposed them first. That is quiet strong and there are a few good decks that use the new ability to their advantage.

 

But to be honest I had games with the new Identity that I would have won playing with the old identity because of the additional demage. But who knows they might have used the additional click just to draw a card and then it wouldn´t have mattered. I think its hard to say which one is the better if played right.



#6 profligate

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:22 AM

IMO, to make Replicating Perfection work properly, you need to have good on-encounter ICE on all your central servers.  Data Raven and Tollbooth jump immediately to mind, but must-break ICE like Neural Katana will work too.  Add in Bullfrog to mess with the runner's head and I think you have the makings of a good deck.  I tried to do this with the cheap end-run ICE and Security Subcontract on the principle of scrapping the now-obsolete ICE for cash in the mid-late game, but it was a bit too clunky, at least the way I had it built.



#7 Defenstrator

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:29 AM

What about a pure bluff strategy? Hard defend the core with ice that costs the runner,  but lightly defend the out side. Instead of using ice play a pure bluffing game with lots of advancable traps played on lots of servers, mixed with faster Agendas. Then use Trick of the Light and Shipment from Kaguya to move advance tokens around as needed.



#8 SilverSaint

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:17 PM

Data Raven is the best card a runner can imagine in a Jinteki Replicating deck.  Jinteki don't do anything with tags, so tagging isn't a large threat if they actually want to go through it.  Let alone if they want to go to a remote its simply…run this server…Data Raven…dont take tag = end run.  So it literally becomes 1 click extra to run a remote.  You also know your corporate opponent wasted 2 influence in his deck, lowering the # of possible out of faction threats.



#9 profligate

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 10:45 AM

Ok, fair enough.  Data Raven isn't a good example.  Pretend I said Wall of Thorns instead.



#10 Defenstrator

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:45 PM

Or Tollbooth, or maybe Heimdall. Just something that sucks up resources whenever they have to go in for that core run. It's not going to stop the Runner, it's there to suck up their time and money, and grind them down in a war of attrition.



#11 Canton Games

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:25 PM

I've found while playing my Jinteki deck that my most valuable server is R&D.  My opponent tends to ignore anything I install in a remote server, due to the extremely high volume of traps.  R&D gets all the ice with the words "End Run" on it.  My hand I leave open, since that's where the snares tend to sit.  Remote servers get the fun ICE, like Neural Katanas and Chum / Data Mine combos, so if they do take a poke or two on the way through, hopefully my trap will finish them off.

The most important thing about Jinteki, though, is to have a great poker face.  Practice staring yourself down in the mirror and saying "Of course it's a Junebug."  If your opponent isn't second guessing himself on every run then you're not doing Jinteki right.



#12 Messenger

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:49 PM

For Jinteki V2, why not use HB's bioroid ICE as your outermost central server guard? At the least, Replicating Perfection forces the Runner to spend an extra click to go after a remote server. Bioroid ICE tempts the Runner to waste even more clicks, even if it's to succeed in the run or avoid damage. If he wastes enough clicks, then he's not going anywhere.

I'd even recommend Janus 1.0 if he wasn't so costly to rez. The Runner has to encounter 4 brain roasting subroutines at strength 8. He's either going to be out of clicks and still be toasted or practically brain dead after.

Then there's Hourglass from the upcoming A Study in Static.

I know brute force isn't really Jinteki's style being the subtly and tricky corp faction, but they sure could use something big and nasty for V2, like Neural Katana's big brother. Call it a Neural Naginata or Cyber Zanbato if you want.



#13 Messenger

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:51 PM

Canton Games said:

The most important thing about Jinteki, though, is to have a great poker face.  Practice staring yourself down in the mirror and saying "Of course it's a Junebug."  If your opponent isn't second guessing himself on every run then you're not doing Jinteki right.

I'm quoting this simply because it's awesome.



#14 profligate

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:07 AM

@Messenger re: Bioroid ICE.  I like the idea of Bioroids in Jinteki.V2, but at 2 influence per ICE, it'll be hard to get enough to make a big difference without dropping Tollbooth, which seems better, IMO.



#15 Messenger

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:40 PM

That's a good point. I should have looked up their influence cost first (I'm an HB player, so I didn't pay attention to it).

Maybe we should come up with a Jinteki V2 deck list just to see what's needed and what we can fit in. If we go forward with putting in bioroid ICE, maybe we can get by with just 3.

Looking them up, Janus is definitely out because of its 3 influence cost besides the heavy rez cost. Otherwise, it would have made a great card for Jinteki V2. We only have Heimdall, Sherlock, Ichi and Victor left. Of those 4, I recommend Ichi because of his number of subroutines that all do something other than end the run.

Speaking of which, I think we should avoid using cards that simply end the run as outermost ICE for central servers in a Jinteki Replicating Perfection deck. A runner going after remote servers is likely to just jack out after the first central server ICE, so if he faces ICE that just ends the run, he simply won't break it. It has to be ICE that he'll want to break, ICE that will hurt him.



#16 profligate

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:25 AM

Ichi is definitely the ICE of choice for right now.  But I also agree completely with the idea that central server ICE shouldn't *just* end the run.  I want it to threaten something terrible as well so the runner is forced to spend more resources on it.  A Study in Static will also bring us Hourglass, which also seems like a great fit here.



#17 Defenstrator

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 02:22 PM

Tollbooth calls to me for the mid game. That constant money hit would hurt. And both Ichihara and Tollboth benefit nicely from Jinteki modifiers like Chum and Sensei.



#18 Messenger

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 08:52 PM

Tollbooth is just too good to not include in this deck, but I wouldn't use it as the outermost ICE of a central server for JV2. It's best in a place where you want a Runner just stopped.



#19 Messenger

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 04:00 AM

Trying to make a list…

Identity: Jinteki: Replicating Perfection
Size: 49 cards

Agendas: 9 cards
3 Braintrust - 6 agenda points
3 Nisei MK II - 6 agenda points
3 Priority Requisition - 9 agenda points

ICE: 24 cards
3 Chum
3 Data Mine
3 Neural Katana
3 Sensei
3 Wall of Thorns
3 Ichi 1.0 - 6 influence points
3 Pop-up Wndow - 3 influence points
3 Tollbooth - 6 influence points

Other: 16 cards
1 Akitaro Watanabe
3 Hedge Fund
3 PAD Campaign
3 Precognition
3 Private Contracts
3 Sunset

Boy… This is hard… avergonzado_triste



#20 Defenstrator

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 04:31 AM

I think you have too much Sensei in there. I find I only want one in a deck since it doesn't do much except add End Run to something else. Unless paired with specifc ice the general attitude in our group is "So what?". If they have an ice breaker that can get through the second ice then it's generally just one more credit to turn off the End Run statement.






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